The total I'm going to have to spend for ZMV5's is $446. (2 of them)
The KRK VXT4's (2) cost 400 to 600. 600 Would get me Retail, but same product.
ZMV5 Pros:
* I get a Router + Router Table, Jasper Circle Jig, and LCR Meter included in that $446.
* I can use the cabinet for other speakers.
* Would be built out of MDF Board, and have Sonic Barrier + PolyFill interior.
* Will also look better, as it will match my room.
* ZMV5s will have good components in the Crossover.
* The woofer is 5"
* I know what these will sound like based on frequency response charts.
* Titanium Tweeter
ZMV5 Cons:
* Woofer response is only 65Hz-11Khz. Low bass.
* Amp I am buying will cost $50.60 Shipped and will only be 30WATTS (I might look further to find a better one for the value)
* Aluminum DIE Cast Rubber Woofer
* Don't have any reviews for Mixing(Reference monitor use of these)
KRK VXT4 Pros:
* Confirmed decent reference quality.
* 56hz-22Khz Basically Full-range. Good bass.
* Cool Design - Kevlar woven woofer\Silk Dome NEO Tweeter.
* Pre-built.
* Would have saved me 40 hours of research or $300 cash.
KRK VXT4 Cons:
* $333.98 more expensive than the ZMV5. (As a pair, if I deducted the Router, Jasper Circle Guide, and LCR Meter)
* No brag rights
* Don't match my room color
* 30W Amp
* Unable to tell what crossover components were used.
* Unable to tell what interior stuffing was used
* No charts showing freq responses.
* The time getting the money would have been spent by working for a restaurant or radio shack. (not too bad)
The KRK VXT4's (2) cost 400 to 600. 600 Would get me Retail, but same product.
ZMV5 Pros:
* I get a Router + Router Table, Jasper Circle Jig, and LCR Meter included in that $446.
* I can use the cabinet for other speakers.
* Would be built out of MDF Board, and have Sonic Barrier + PolyFill interior.
* Will also look better, as it will match my room.
* ZMV5s will have good components in the Crossover.
* The woofer is 5"
* I know what these will sound like based on frequency response charts.
* Titanium Tweeter
ZMV5 Cons:
* Woofer response is only 65Hz-11Khz. Low bass.
* Amp I am buying will cost $50.60 Shipped and will only be 30WATTS (I might look further to find a better one for the value)
* Aluminum DIE Cast Rubber Woofer
* Don't have any reviews for Mixing(Reference monitor use of these)
KRK VXT4 Pros:
* Confirmed decent reference quality.
* 56hz-22Khz Basically Full-range. Good bass.
* Cool Design - Kevlar woven woofer\Silk Dome NEO Tweeter.
* Pre-built.
* Would have saved me 40 hours of research or $300 cash.
KRK VXT4 Cons:
* $333.98 more expensive than the ZMV5. (As a pair, if I deducted the Router, Jasper Circle Guide, and LCR Meter)
* No brag rights
* Don't match my room color
* 30W Amp
* Unable to tell what crossover components were used.
* Unable to tell what interior stuffing was used
* No charts showing freq responses.
* The time getting the money would have been spent by working for a restaurant or radio shack. (not too bad)
Some comments:
ZMV5 Cons:
* Woofer response is only 65Hz-11Khz. Low bass. --> looks more like ~45Hz extension based on Zaphs measurements
* Amp I am buying will cost $50.60 Shipped and will only be 30WATTS (I might look further to find a better one for the value) --> 30W should be fine
* Don't have any reviews for Mixing(Reference monitor use of these) Zaphs measured response looks quite good as it's very linear
KRK VXT4 Pros:
* 56hz-22Khz Basically Full-range. Good bass. --> Based on what?
KRK VXT4 Cons:
* 30W Amp --> Isn't it 15W tweeter + 30W Mid? Probably well sufficient for the model
* Unable to tell what crossover components were used. --> Active xo so not really comparable
* No charts showing freq responses. --> Studio monitors without charts? Sounds a bit risky as some are really bad
ZMV5 Cons:
* Woofer response is only 65Hz-11Khz. Low bass. --> looks more like ~45Hz extension based on Zaphs measurements
* Amp I am buying will cost $50.60 Shipped and will only be 30WATTS (I might look further to find a better one for the value) --> 30W should be fine
* Don't have any reviews for Mixing(Reference monitor use of these) Zaphs measured response looks quite good as it's very linear
KRK VXT4 Pros:
* 56hz-22Khz Basically Full-range. Good bass. --> Based on what?
KRK VXT4 Cons:
* 30W Amp --> Isn't it 15W tweeter + 30W Mid? Probably well sufficient for the model
* Unable to tell what crossover components were used. --> Active xo so not really comparable
* No charts showing freq responses. --> Studio monitors without charts? Sounds a bit risky as some are really bad
That was a really good response.
Thanks a lot.
Some pessimists were trying to convince me that buying commercial speakers will be a better deal. They started to do this after I said that I was mostly building the speakers because it saves money. lol
I was with the ZMV5's my self, but they were getting me kind of confused.
Thanks a bunch.
Thanks a lot.
Some pessimists were trying to convince me that buying commercial speakers will be a better deal. They started to do this after I said that I was mostly building the speakers because it saves money. lol
I was with the ZMV5's my self, but they were getting me kind of confused.
Thanks a bunch.
Just so you guys know the true story, he has put things way out of context.
He's trying to build a pair of studio monitors and we told him that chances are he's going to be better off buying real studio monitors. He wanted to throw in some cheap amps that run off a 12v power adapter into them and expects the ZMV5 (or whatever he chooses) to out perform real powered monitors that cost 500-700 bucks.
Also just so you know kizm0 the forum you mention with the pessimists is probably the biggest forum on the net for DIY speakers. This forum certainly has it's users but they are far bigger in the DIY electronic world like DAC's, Preamps, Amps and what not.
He's trying to build a pair of studio monitors and we told him that chances are he's going to be better off buying real studio monitors. He wanted to throw in some cheap amps that run off a 12v power adapter into them and expects the ZMV5 (or whatever he chooses) to out perform real powered monitors that cost 500-700 bucks.
Also just so you know kizm0 the forum you mention with the pessimists is probably the biggest forum on the net for DIY speakers. This forum certainly has it's users but they are far bigger in the DIY electronic world like DAC's, Preamps, Amps and what not.
Not really a decent amp you can get for that..... 50 bucks as far as commercial amps go is not much...heck for a DIY amp it's not much.
Something I was recommending would be like this
http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_dynaudio_acousticsbma/
Which with the cost youd' spend on tools and what not you could buy those. They are 599 for a pair from b&h. Also you have calculated how much you think they are going to cost with tools and everything but it costs you more then you expect 99.999999% of the time. By time you get done with a good amp (at least 100 bucks I'd say) and tools and what not you are talking probably 600-700 bucks pretty easily. Also most of these nice studio monitors that are in that price range are active which is generally better then a passive crossover and they are bi-amped with very decently designed (at the least) amps.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/490882-REG/Dynaudio_Acoustics_995_001002_BM5_6_9_Two_Way.html
Something I was recommending would be like this
http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_dynaudio_acousticsbma/
Which with the cost youd' spend on tools and what not you could buy those. They are 599 for a pair from b&h. Also you have calculated how much you think they are going to cost with tools and everything but it costs you more then you expect 99.999999% of the time. By time you get done with a good amp (at least 100 bucks I'd say) and tools and what not you are talking probably 600-700 bucks pretty easily. Also most of these nice studio monitors that are in that price range are active which is generally better then a passive crossover and they are bi-amped with very decently designed (at the least) amps.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/490882-REG/Dynaudio_Acoustics_995_001002_BM5_6_9_Two_Way.html
Like I said there is no good amp really that you can get for 50 dollars, you are sacrificing quality hugely. You just aren't listening at all. You've got to be young and hard headed. Go ahead and build your ZMV5's and put your little cheap 15 dollar amps in them. When you come back and say they sound bad I'll just laugh quietly and refrain from telling you I told you so.
Amps are all about component quality and what not. Cheap amps have extremely cheap parts...especially at the price point you have placed. Another big factor of amp quality is the quality and design of the PSU. A psu in a 50 dollar amp is going to be a joke. Your little amps you picked that you use with a power adapter basically would be a joke. You need a decent beefy PSU behind an amp. Cheap amps sound cheap. You don't really start getting into a good amp until around 200 bucks I'd say.... maybe 100 used.
You've never done a DIY audio project and yet you are telling people that give you sound advice to leave you alone. So just do what you are going to do and be done with it as you aren't going to listen anyways.
Amps are all about component quality and what not. Cheap amps have extremely cheap parts...especially at the price point you have placed. Another big factor of amp quality is the quality and design of the PSU. A psu in a 50 dollar amp is going to be a joke. Your little amps you picked that you use with a power adapter basically would be a joke. You need a decent beefy PSU behind an amp. Cheap amps sound cheap. You don't really start getting into a good amp until around 200 bucks I'd say.... maybe 100 used.
You've never done a DIY audio project and yet you are telling people that give you sound advice to leave you alone. So just do what you are going to do and be done with it as you aren't going to listen anyways.
Can you go second hand here?
Look around on ebay at powered monitors. Maybe you can pick up a pair of Mackie HR624 mk1's for $600. These do little wrong even against more expensive models and I'd put them in a bracket, maybe even two just press home how good these are, above either the ZMV5 or the KRT.
The ZMV5 looks good for the money and the value rating is hard to argue with but I'd be tempted by the KRT as well. Not so long back I had the choice of building some compact surround speakers or buying commercial. After considering the choices I decided on a pair of Genelec 8020. I'm a pretty strong proponent of DIY and like to think myself capable but one choice seemed fairly obviously more sensible than the other.
For me I decided that, in this case, DIY didn't outweigh the cost saving once I'd looked at the effort needed to build something equivalent. In your case its ~$450 vs. $600. Looking at the DIY your saving money, getting some tools for future projects, learning and having fun but what your not getting are any amps nor a finished project. The KRT is an active 2 way design meaning you get active crossovers, per-driver amplification, a high standard of finish and zero fuss. If your honest with yourself its easy to see it will take a little more effort to get an 'equivalent' result with DIY and particularly so if your tackling this from a novice starting position.
So consider your options carefully before deciding and hopefully you'll have no regrets whichever way you go. If your fully clued up on just what the DIY route entails and are still enthusiastic about it then you should definitely give it a go.
And no, you'll struggle to buy a reasonable amp for $50 - that goes double if your talking about commercial and not DIY. Realistically chipamps are the start(and beyond) of good value DIY amp designs.
Good luck
Look around on ebay at powered monitors. Maybe you can pick up a pair of Mackie HR624 mk1's for $600. These do little wrong even against more expensive models and I'd put them in a bracket, maybe even two just press home how good these are, above either the ZMV5 or the KRT.
The ZMV5 looks good for the money and the value rating is hard to argue with but I'd be tempted by the KRT as well. Not so long back I had the choice of building some compact surround speakers or buying commercial. After considering the choices I decided on a pair of Genelec 8020. I'm a pretty strong proponent of DIY and like to think myself capable but one choice seemed fairly obviously more sensible than the other.
For me I decided that, in this case, DIY didn't outweigh the cost saving once I'd looked at the effort needed to build something equivalent. In your case its ~$450 vs. $600. Looking at the DIY your saving money, getting some tools for future projects, learning and having fun but what your not getting are any amps nor a finished project. The KRT is an active 2 way design meaning you get active crossovers, per-driver amplification, a high standard of finish and zero fuss. If your honest with yourself its easy to see it will take a little more effort to get an 'equivalent' result with DIY and particularly so if your tackling this from a novice starting position.
So consider your options carefully before deciding and hopefully you'll have no regrets whichever way you go. If your fully clued up on just what the DIY route entails and are still enthusiastic about it then you should definitely give it a go.
And no, you'll struggle to buy a reasonable amp for $50 - that goes double if your talking about commercial and not DIY. Realistically chipamps are the start(and beyond) of good value DIY amp designs.
Good luck
Well..you are forgetting that the DIY includes the power tools:
Router+table Saw : $129.99
Circle Jig: $21.99
LCR Meter: $25.99
The total is : $177.97
It also includes better interior filling..just read the entire cons\pros again.
The sound will beat anything else for $300 no doubt about it. I think it even compares\beats the monitors you're specifying as long as I get a good amp. Once again, before you make judgments try and look over the pros\cons I listed. Then look at the other updates that Land made.
Pretty much done here. I don't know why but I lost my hope for these guys, then confusion kicked in and made it worse. I feel better now..peace
Router+table Saw : $129.99
Circle Jig: $21.99
LCR Meter: $25.99
The total is : $177.97
It also includes better interior filling..just read the entire cons\pros again.
The sound will beat anything else for $300 no doubt about it. I think it even compares\beats the monitors you're specifying as long as I get a good amp. Once again, before you make judgments try and look over the pros\cons I listed. Then look at the other updates that Land made.
Pretty much done here. I don't know why but I lost my hope for these guys, then confusion kicked in and made it worse. I feel better now..peace
Didn't forget because I made reference to that in my post.
Better interior filling? I wouldn't go crazy over such a pro myself. Not sure how you've seen inside KRT or Mackie to judge the stuffing but if they're not what you want then 5 minutes and a screw driver will sort that out.
I have read the thread thank you. It seems to me you want to hear one thing so why come here asking for advice? You've already made your mind up. You could have saved me 5 minutes making the post above.
I think its funny that he has never built a DIY design but "KNOWS" they will sound better then anything. You aren't going to just spend 300 dollars. I'd bet money there is no way you can spend 300 bucks on the ZMV5's. THe tools are part of the cost no matter how you spin it. And 130 bucks on a router and table saw is not going to get you much. Doubt it'll even cut straight due to a cheap fence.
Like I said before since you know so much just build what you want and quit asking for advice because everyones going to give you the same advice.
Also the Mackies are built very well very solid and have high quality components. They've been used in very high end studios. Everything you have read about the ZMV5 is all about in a home audio setting and not being used as pro monitors.
Like I said before since you know so much just build what you want and quit asking for advice because everyones going to give you the same advice.
Also the Mackies are built very well very solid and have high quality components. They've been used in very high end studios. Everything you have read about the ZMV5 is all about in a home audio setting and not being used as pro monitors.
The people on this board (and the other board) suggesting you buy COTS speakers (KRK, Mackie, etc.) are giving you good advice. I'm assuming you've never built/bought speakers in this price range before?
Facts:
The KRK (and most of the other studio monitors you'd look at) are active. Your ZMV5 are (from what I understand) passive. To make them active, you'd require at least two amps, as well as an active crossover, per speaker.
Active (typically) allows for smoother crossover slopes, more headroom, etc. per driver.
Tons of research (thousands, or tens of thousands) goes into large scale production speakers. I doubt you'd be able to replicate that.
Fit and finish on off the shelf speakers is going to be better than yours. Period. Unless you're willing to spend tons and tons of time on paint, repaint, sand, etc.
There's lots of unforeseen costs associated with building your own speakers. I've done a few, and while it's not extremely difficult/expensive, little things add up. Are you accounting for router bits? Wood? Screws? Paint? Extra pieces for when you (inevitably) mess up? How about speaker cable, banana plugs, wood glue, etc.? Most of the people on this board probably have all these already kind of sitting around, but if you're just starting up, there's tons of start up costs.
Have you done woodworking before? If you want to get a decent router, router table, drill, you're gonna spend a decent chunk of money. Don't skimp on tools.
Are you not planning on using a circular/straight saw? You can spend 130 on a decent router, or a decent circ/table saw, but not on both. Like daddy said, it ain't gonna cut straight.
Other stuff (not necessarily facts, but thoughts):
You're putting too much stock into the titanium tweeter/cast frame etc. etc. They may affect sound quality, but it's the overall system that matters more.
ZMV5 are designed for two channel and home theater. Studio monitoring is completely different, and studio monitors have different design goals. Zaph designs speakers that sound especially good. For studio monitors, you probably want speakers that are brutally accurate. If you're using these as studio monitors, buy studio monitors (or build speakers designed to be studio monitors).
What're you using these for?
If you look on the used market, you can find amazing deals on studio monitors. For example, in SFBay craigslist, there are some RP-6's for 230. Also some VXT6 for 600. I recently got some cheapie Behringer B2031P's to use as easy setup speakers for under 200 on ebay.
Justin
Facts:
The KRK (and most of the other studio monitors you'd look at) are active. Your ZMV5 are (from what I understand) passive. To make them active, you'd require at least two amps, as well as an active crossover, per speaker.
Active (typically) allows for smoother crossover slopes, more headroom, etc. per driver.
Tons of research (thousands, or tens of thousands) goes into large scale production speakers. I doubt you'd be able to replicate that.
Fit and finish on off the shelf speakers is going to be better than yours. Period. Unless you're willing to spend tons and tons of time on paint, repaint, sand, etc.
There's lots of unforeseen costs associated with building your own speakers. I've done a few, and while it's not extremely difficult/expensive, little things add up. Are you accounting for router bits? Wood? Screws? Paint? Extra pieces for when you (inevitably) mess up? How about speaker cable, banana plugs, wood glue, etc.? Most of the people on this board probably have all these already kind of sitting around, but if you're just starting up, there's tons of start up costs.
Have you done woodworking before? If you want to get a decent router, router table, drill, you're gonna spend a decent chunk of money. Don't skimp on tools.
Are you not planning on using a circular/straight saw? You can spend 130 on a decent router, or a decent circ/table saw, but not on both. Like daddy said, it ain't gonna cut straight.
Other stuff (not necessarily facts, but thoughts):
You're putting too much stock into the titanium tweeter/cast frame etc. etc. They may affect sound quality, but it's the overall system that matters more.
ZMV5 are designed for two channel and home theater. Studio monitoring is completely different, and studio monitors have different design goals. Zaph designs speakers that sound especially good. For studio monitors, you probably want speakers that are brutally accurate. If you're using these as studio monitors, buy studio monitors (or build speakers designed to be studio monitors).
What're you using these for?
If you look on the used market, you can find amazing deals on studio monitors. For example, in SFBay craigslist, there are some RP-6's for 230. Also some VXT6 for 600. I recently got some cheapie Behringer B2031P's to use as easy setup speakers for under 200 on ebay.
Justin
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