Pro vs hifi drivers - pros and cons?

[fergs1]

Greetings, hey Godzilla is your MJK h frame standard depth, it maybe just the photo but it doesn't look 7.5 in depth on the front.
cheers fergs

[Godzilla]

>>> Greetings, hey Godzilla is your MJK h frame standard depth, it maybe just the photo but it doesn't look 7.5 in depth on the front.
cheers fergs

http://www.zillaaudio.com/speakers-t...woofer-bib.htm

Hi fergs, good eye! i cheated and made them only 6" deep front and back. the width and height are to scale. my room is small so i like to gain an inch here and there when i can... (my BIBs are also slightly smaller scale than recommended) and i figured if i did not like the sound i could simply extend the walls on the H-frames. Everything sounds great. I am happy with the sound.

Godzilla

[hunter audio x]

PRO DIVERS ARE FAR SUPERIOR THAN HI-FI DRIVERS. THE ENGG INVOLVE IN DESIGNING THESE DRIVERS ARE VERY ADVANCED THAN HI-FI DRIVERS. STARTING FROM THE INNOVATIVE MOTOR STRUCTURE
DESIGN TO THE USE OF HI-QUALITY SOFT PARTS AND PRECISION WOUND COILS .... ETC.
EACH OF THIS ADD TO YEARS AND YEARS DEVELOPMENT WHICH GIVES BIRTH TO A PRO-DRIVER WHICH HAS AN IDENTITY FOR DECADES IN THE PRO-AUDIO INDUSTRY.
PRO DRIVERS FROM JBL AS THEIR 2206H,2226H.....
ELECTRO-VOICE DRIVERS..... DL10X, DL15X,EVX155....
FANE DRIVERS .....STUDIO 8M, 10M .......
THESE MODELS ARE KNOWS FOR THEIR GREAT REPUTATION
AND ARE KNOW FOR THEIR COUNTLESS CONTRIBUTION TO THE AUDIO INDUSTRY. THESE ARE JUST A FEW. MODELS I REFER TO, THERE ARE MANY MORE FROM BRANDS LIKE ..................................
RCF, EMINENCE,B&C,PAS,ALTEC,CELESTION,TAD,TANNOY,YAMAHA AND OTHERS HAVE THEIR LEGENDARY RANGE OF PRO-DRIVER THAT ARE TREND SETTERS TO THE AUDIO INDUSTRY.
.....
PRO AUDIO DOES NOT ONLY COUNT TO OPEN AIR OUTDOOR USE, THESE DRIVES ALSO PLAY A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN INDOOR USE AS REFERENCE MONITORS IN RECORDING STUDIOS AND LISTENING ROOM AND IN INDOOR LIVE SOUND AUDITORIUMS.

IN PRO SOUND A FINISHED LOUDSPEAKER BOX IS KNOWN FOR THE PARTICULAR DRIVER INSIDE. WHERE AS IN HI-FI A DRIVER HAS NO IDENTITY OF ITS OWN AND IF OFTEN SOURCED FROM OEM MANUFACTURER FROM CHINA, WITH SHINY METAL PARTS, PLASTIC CONES AND DECORATIVE TRIM RINGS ETC. THEY CONTRIBUTE IS VERY LESS TO THE SOUND MORE TOWARDS TO THE COSMETIC VALUE.
EVEN THE IN EXPENSIVE RANGE OF HI-BOXES 90% OF THE DRIVERS ARE SOURCED FROM ASIA (CHINA). NOW DAYS THE KEVLAR, CARBON FIBER CONE WOOFERS AND INJECTED CARBON GRAPHITE REINFORCED PLASTIC CONES DRIVES ARE FROM A,B,C ... MANUFACTURES FROM CHINA .
THEY DO NOT STAND TO THE QUALITY MARK TO THEIR EUROPEAN AND AMERICAN COUNTERPARTS.

[Iain McNeill]

Hunter,
welcome to the DIYaudio forum. You will find that we have very good hearing here and caps lock is not needed

[fredex]

Good thread. Ruggedness, power handling, consistancy, proper manufacturer's specs, lack of thermal compression, sensitivity, max spl, dynamic range are why I like pro drivers especially in 15" woofers which are rare in hifi speakers. I also feel that I am not spending too much on cosmetics, and hopefully none on snake oil or fashion.

But in a domestic enviroment depending on what kind of guy/girl you are, they may not be the best choice in all cases. If you sometimes like the feeling of the music sounding really loud (distorted) your amp may clip before you get that sound. Speakers than can take the power and remain clean don't seem to sound "louder" the sound just gets more and more powerfull until the windows rattle plaster falls neighbours complain or your ears get damaged. I have heard many low spl systems that can really rock out. Another strategy is to use pro drivers with a low powered tube amp and enjoy the sound of it going into overdrive which does take me back to the parties I enjoyed back in the 60s.

[gedlee]

Hey all

Thanks to those great comments on my speakers.

One thing that I think is missing in this discussion is thermal modulation. A pro speaker is always going to be better in this regard than a hi-fi speaker because it has to be built for good thermal performance. This is not going to be a significant factor at low playback levels, but it will be dominate at higher palyback level. Efficiency plays into this as well. I've never liked Hi-Fi speakers, but when I was doing home theater I found out that hi-fi speakers simply could not do HT. Thats because the effects and stuff in movies are way way louder than we tend to listen to background music. SO this brought out the serious failing of Hi-Fi speakers in this application. That's precisely why I did the Summa line of speakers, because I wanted HI-Fi sound, but I had to have Pro level thermal handling at higher SPLs.

Pro speakers got a well deserved bad name some years ago because they almost always (if not always) used horns. Older horns were, let's face it, terrible. We did not listen to them because of their "smoothness" or "low coloration", we listened to them because of their dynamics and we lived with the sickly sound quality. But today that's changed. Have you ever heard a modern well designed waveguide next to and older horn? Well I have and let me tell you there is simply no comparison. So these days we can have superb dynamics AND Hi-Fi sound quality all in the same package. Whats not to like?

And to Doug20 - a good system design is far more than just some parts. You can't just buy a set of "similar" parts and expect a comparable system to just "happen" out of this. There is a lot of work and skill, knowledge and experince in a truely competent design and parts don't include any of that.

[fredex]

Originally posted by gedlee
.......Pro speakers got a well deserved bad name some years ago because they almost always (if not always) used horns. Older horns were, let's face it, terrible. We did not listen to them because of their "smoothness" or "low coloration", we listened to them because of their dynamics and we lived with the sickly sound quality. .........

I agree, although I love my Altec 15" woofers I could never get a seemless match to my collection of Altec compression drivers and horns. I even made a tractrix fibre glass horn, better but still colored. I would love to hear your speakers.

[Thebrain]

hello everyone.
without going into technical terms
as a studio engineer and a live sound engineer i must say in my opinion
hifi drivers are more detailed and accurate.
pro drivers are more reliable and can take a beating.

in our days the pro drivers technology improved tremendously.
i heard a few JBL and EV systems that sounded absolutely amazing.
but...

the bottom line in my experience is that pro drivers do not produce
the same quality and accuracy you'll get from a hifi driver.
i don't care what Fs xMax Vas or other parameters they have.
i know what i hear!

the top pro driver is no match in quality to the top hifi driver.
same as a top hifi driver wouldn't be able to handle half the stress a standard pro driver takes in his lifetime.

they almost always (if not always) used horns. Older horns were, let's face it, terrible

unbelievably terrible!

[art64]

Originally posted by Godzilla
http://www.zillaaudio.com/speakers-t...woofer-bib.htm

Having built many systems for home use - i am the kind of guy who sits between two speakers and listens critically - i feel both home and pro drivers can be used together to great effect. It's difficult to tell from the picture in the link but that's a pro Eminence 15" driver and a pro Eminence compression tweeter (using a small waveguide and a dunkin donuts coffee box) partnered with a home audio Fostex driver. There is also a home audio ACI subwoofer which has since been disconnected because it did not sound as good (to me) as the pro drivers costing one third their price. At this point in my hobby pro drivers interest me because of the sound they are capable of producing in a home setting. I enjoy the effortless power from the woofers and the crisp lifelike treble from the compression tweeters. But i also enjoy the clear mids from the Fostex full range driver although i am looking forward to hearing what some of the more extended pro drivers have to offer in the future. These are pretty inexpensive pro drivers too... they are built well and sound great in the ranges i choose to use them. It is frustrating when Fs is so high compared to home audio woofers but there are ways to equalize, attenuate and blend pro audio woofers (and tweeters) with home audio drivers and take advantage of both IMO.

Godzilla

I absolutely agree with you. This weekend, I just did that. I was able to buy a Crate BE215 Bass Guitar cabinet. It has 2 15" woofers with no passive crossover. Really cheap too at $50.00. Works great. I just had to rewire them for stereo operation. They were connected in parallel. I used a separate amp to drive these woofers with the treble control at minimum setting. My other speaker is a modified Bose 901. Turned backwards so all 8 drivers are facing the front. I also removed the heavy cloth covering them. In addition to that i'm also using a BBE 362 Sonic Maximizer for clearer sound and tighter bass. OMG after initial test, the sound was magniificent, unbelievable. The 901's array helped dispersed the sound all around me. Don't even have to sit in the middle. 901's also have excellent mid range, perfect for vocals. BBE clarified the highs--not just ssss. The woofers are great. Tight bass sounded natural compared to my Klipsch subwoofer. Felt like I was in a club. Don't get me wrong, I don't have to blast the volume to get full sound. But it is just fun sometimes. Over do it and have a head ache. This is the sound that I've always wanted. I almost bought a JBL JRX 115. But just worried that the horn is gonna be too loud and very directional and won't sound good in a normal size room. I had a very nice weekend. Next weekend again.

[ZilchLab]

Originally posted by art64
I almost bought a JBL JRX 115. But just worried that the horn is gonna be too loud and very directional and won't sound good in a normal size room.

Notwithstanding that JRX uses the $9.90 EconoWaveguide and dispersion would not be an issue, as Earl's measurements have shown, I doubt they'd sound as good as something you could build with them yourself, as now over 50 AudioKarma members have done:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=150939