Pro vs hifi drivers - pros and cons?

[tinitus]

Earl, theres no doubt about your priorities, that they are valid in the real world, and that you keep a firm grip on them
But you will never get beyond the production aspect
No need to constantly defend you designs principles
We cant all do it your way, even if it would make sense
Your input is surely of high value, but this is not about Geddes design

I wont deny that I would look in the direction of LeClech, and the way his "fans" realise their ideas
I dont know why you call it science fiction
Might to a large degree be an illusion, but certainly quite realsitic
But dont forget this is also about dreams and having fun
100% science is simply too boring
I also know "perfect" people who always only do what makes sense, and they are the most boring people I know
And in the end they are only cheating themselves, having a boring life
Dont forget this is way more than just listening to music
Have fun

[markus76]

Originally Posted by tinitus

Earl, ... We cant all do it your way, even if it would make sense

Why not? Using speakers with constant (high) directivity is probably the easiest way to get decent sound in any living room.

Best, Markus

[tinitus]

Markus, you scare me now
There are other more apropriate Geddes threads fore that
Whatever, I hate when a debate like this ends up being "commercial"
Even so, I was the first to suggest that Earl should do a kit, and that this forum would be his best friend
And Im glad it really happened

I admit, I said the same thing to the AE guys
What I didnt expect was that they left this forum completely
Obviously they only had interest in "advertising"
But who can blame them, but still disappointing

Earl, I have no doubt that you are more than that, but still holds both
A difficult balance, no point in denying it
I dont know why this subject is a complete nono
Earl, please dont let this stop you, keep on debating

Subject is still "pro drivers vs hifi drivers, pros and cons"

[gedlee]

Originally Posted by tinitus

100% science is simply too boring

Not to me its not

I also know "perfect" people who always only do what makes sense, and they are the most boring people I know
And in the end they are only cheating themselves, having a boring life
Dont forget this is way more than just listening to music
Have fun

You don't know me at all. "Boring" is not what I would call my life. In fact, I am set well enough that I can do pretty much what I want. I don't want to compromise on my principles or my designs - so I don't. Enough people appreciate real value and quality, the rest, well, I think that it's them you should be lecturing, not me.

[gedlee]

Originally Posted by tinitus

I admit, I said the same thing to the AE guys
What I didnt expect was that they left they forum completely
Obviously they only had interest in "advertising"

I think that they may have left town completely

Earl, I have no doubt that you are more than that, but still holds both
A difficult balance, no point in denying it

I don't deny it, but I'm also not going to appologize for it. I have strong views on audio, I see things completely different than most. I always have, even well before I started making speakers and just did research. The fact that my philosophy and my products are so tightly aligned is not a coincidence, nor is it marketing. It's simply the "World According to Earl". When you come to chuch, expect to hear the Gospel.

I'm not trying to hyjack the thread, I've tried to stay on topic and not diverted any more than necessary. But if my designs make my point then I'll use them. I'm not going to run from the thread rather than promote my own work.

I'm sure if I go over the line the moderators will say something.

[markus76]

Originally Posted by tinitus

Markus, you scare me now
There are other more apropriate Geddes threads fore that
Whatever, I hate when a debate like this ends up being "commercial"

I might advertise a solution but not a certain loudspeaker. Any speaker with constant (high) directivity is adequate, e.g. Klein + Hummel (now Sennheiser and Neumann) has some good loudspeakers. Probably even Zilch's EconoWave will fit the bill.

Best, Markus

[Don Hills]

Tinitus has a point, that this hobby is in part about dreams and having fun. But it is important to realise that there is a difference between talking about ideals and having to live with real world compromises.

The most common compromise is money. Given a limited budget, I will always buy a speaker where the money has been spent on making the range 40 to 10 KHz the best it can be - frequency and phase, directivity, distortion - and only housekeeping applied outside that range (no huge resonances, for example). This speaker will almost certainly sound better than one where a significant part of the cost has been spent on extending the range, especially upwards. If Earl's designs do 40 Hz to 10 KHz better than other, more extended range designs in the same price range, then they go to the top of the list.

The Rogers LS3/5A is an example of a speaker where people actually paid a premium to get superb performance in the critical (mid) range at the cost of the extremes.

[tinitus]

Originally Posted by markus76

Any speaker with constant (high) directivity is adequate

You may not even have mr Geddes on your side with that one

Im not really arguing with anything you say
Im just stirring the pot a bit, because I hate narrow minded uniformity
And I hate bullying
I dont care who is wrong or right
And yeah, I often shoot my own foot doing it

But why mention money at all
Will a big oval LeCleach horn be more expencive
Not to me it wont
But if you need to buy it, probably
It wont need more expencive drivers either
Its just a lot of work

If I have learned anything from Earl Geddes, and the debate and interest he started, its that you cant just go buy any waveguide and expect it to work properly
Im not able to prove how or why, but if you think its all about directivity, I would say its a useless simplification and completely misunderstood
Mind you, Im not saying the opposite
Ofcourse directivity matter, but it doesnt work on its own
And its not the only "design principle" that has positive effect

As a "funny" side remark, would you use a long throw horn with the ultimate directivity fore close up listening home use
I suppose not

btw, I understand when Earl get a bit offended when people think its just to go buy a waveguide and a big woofer, and thats it

[markus76]

Originally Posted by tinitus

You may not even have mr Geddes on your side with that one

Do I need to?

Originally Posted by tinitus

Im not really arguing with anything you say
Im just stirring the pot a bit, because I hate narrow minded uniformity
I dont care who is wrong or right

I do because all these purely technical devices that cramp my room have just one purpose: accurate sound reproduction. If that's narrow minded for you then be it.

Not sure who or what exactly you're trying to address with the rest of your posting.

Best, Markus

[tinitus]

Originally Posted by markus76

I do because all these purely technical devices that cramp my room have just one purpose: accurate sound reproduction.

Oh, Im passed that, thank god, but good luck
Accurate, what is that anyway

But dont you think its a bit boring to end every speaker debate with saying " just buy a Gedlee and move on"
Quite honestly, that really is what you are saying
And maybe forget to say, "oh remember at least 4-5 subs, and electronics"
Sorry Earl, no pun intended

Cheap subs, no way
Expencive subs, no way
Then what, when I wont do with less than 30hz