Pro vs hifi drivers - pros and cons?

[badman]

My own experimentation with long-term DBT proves otherwise. I found much higher rates of successful identification within a casual listening, long term, home environment than is seen in the studies you reference. Requires a 'blind' switchbox and notetaking, but for me it was more than sufficient to show that the short term tests used are insufficient for all but the highest level effects.

Again, I'll point out- there have been DBTs conducted where the listeners didn't have any statistically significant identification of significantly different speakers.

A lack of system familiarity is a biggie, we're dealing in subtleties in hifi anyway. Your typical DBT eliminates the ability of someone to focus on what changes have been made to the system they know and love. So they're hit with a large amount of unfamiliar information and forced to choose, when you're testing for subtleties. Seems pretty obvious to me that the test method would often swamp the test subject.

[markus76]

Originally Posted by J.R.Freeman

I have witnessed the failure of this suggestion first hand, and will never accept it.

Would you be so kind to explain that in detail?

Best, Markus

[Norris Wilson]

Hello,

Has anyone had experience with the AE TD15M in a two-way with horn loaded compression driver?

After many comments regarding the AE woofers as being one of the best professional designs around. I thought the TD15M as being a good candidate to use as a monitor designed around its strengths with a four distributed subwoofer set up?

Thanks for any input.

NW

[markus76]

Originally Posted by badman

there have been DBTs conducted where the listeners didn't have any statistically significant identification of significantly different speakers.

Would you be so kind to post a link or reference?
There're a couple of studies that showed that there is no audible difference under anechoic conditions when the loudspeakers had similar on-axis frequency response. Whereas in rooms speaker directivity plays a major role. Differences became audible. Flindell et al. "Subjective Evaluations of Preferred Loudspeaker Directivity" - AES E-Library: Subjective Evaluations of Preferred Loudspeaker Directivity

Best, Markus

[randybes]

Originally Posted by 45

Their training is based on a limited number of specific things that could be of little interest for a music lover or a normal person that in end are the consumers!
Audio Musings by Sean Olive: listener training
As usual it is mostly based on frequency response and tonal balance and distortion. Is it exhaustive?
It is their standard. You could be biased as well.
In fact they conclude that students are the less reliable because they have little experience with high quality systems. However students could be the most reliable because they are not biased and what they listen to is not so strikingly "better" as the testers think.
On one thing I absolutely agree, it is speculation.....
Why don't they test persons untrained about hifi with a lot of experience with music? Both musicians and common people.

Have you read Toole's recent book. He talks about some differences among musicians and "common people".

[thoriated]

Originally Posted by markus76

You claimed that home theater is not about high quality. To refresh your mind please reread your own post.

Best, Markus

I wasn't slamming HT as a whole - I was lamenting the quality of AC-3. As far as HT SQ, in general, I have already invested about $5K in drivers and amplifiers including, for the subs, 16 31mmp-p Xmax 12" woofers and a Crown K2 to drive them and enough JBL pro sound 12" woofers, HF drivers and 4344 horns plus parts for my own design hybrid 150 watt x 6 channel amplifier for a 5.1 or 7.1 DIY HT amp/speaker system that I would much prefer to hear something better than AC-3 over.

I would really like to hear higher audio quality in the digital realm overall - maybe enough to get refractory when discussing low end lossy digital audio formats - my DVDA and SACD collection is of high enough SQ in general that I wouldn't miss new releases in analog too badly if such was the minimum digital audio standard.

[randybes]

Originally Posted by SY

I quite liked the linked article at the end, an exemplar of why I think Gordon Holt was the last honest and competent reviewer.

It's too bad that Olive didn't have access to the Supermen of this site who have overcome all human tendencies toward conscious and unconscious bias, can't fool themselves, and thus have no need of controlled subjective testing.

You mean Michael Fremer

[markus76]

Originally Posted by randybes

Have you read Toole's recent book. He talks about some differences among musicians and "common people".

45 doesn't need to read anything anymore because he already has "done it a long time ago.....!"

What a lot of people don't understand is that sound quality would even exist if there was no music at all.

Best, Markus

[Brett]

Originally Posted by Norris Wilson

Hello,

Has anyone had experience with the AE TD15M in a two-way with horn loaded compression driver?

After many comments regarding the AE woofers as being one of the best professional designs around. I thought the TD15M as being a good candidate to use as a monitor designed around its strengths with a four distributed subwoofer set up?

Thanks for any input.

NW

Try here

[SY]

Originally Posted by randybes

You mean Michael Fremer

Actually, I meant THIS site, but sure, it's probably true of the Stereophile guys. Non-humans, with computers instead of carbon-based brains.