Pro vs hifi drivers - pros and cons?

[Pano]

I think a lot of why horns are disliked is the crossover, not the horn. It takes a lot more work and knowledge - and maybe luck! - to make a great sounding horn crossover.
Much easier with domes.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by J.R.Freeman

Back on topic then, here is a question:

Say I wanted to use a nice 10" professional mid-woofer in a home audio system, to fill a large room with high dynamic-range, moderate SPL's. Let's say my mid-woofer has an average characteristic sensitivity of 98 dB.

I've been messing with prosound drivers and horns for a few years now... I think that some of the reasons that people like these drivers and enclosures has nothing to do with them being "prosound."

For instance, faraday rings reduce inductance, and drivers with low inductance tend to have low distortion. If you look through the B&C catalog, half their drivers use them. JBL has been using them for over two decades.

But in the hifi world, it's relatively uncommon. Seas uses them on their spendy drivers, and Dayton uses them on their reference drivers. But you don't see it on a regular basis.

So that's the first thing - pro sound drivers tend to use distortion reducing mechanisms like shorting riings.

Another common feature of prosound drivers is a much greater SD. For instance, in the hifi world a 6.5" woofer is a midbass; in the prosound world their are 12" drivers that are MIDRANGES.

And guess what? Distortion goes through the roof as excursion rises.

So the prosound woofers have another advantage here - they offer the same SPL as "hifi" drivers at a lower excursion.

The bottom line is that there isn't anything magical about prosound drivers. They're engineered for high SPL, and due to that, they include a lot of features which reduce distortion.

You can find these features in "hifi" drivers. In fact, you can even find them in computer speakers. I have a batch of Peerless computer speakers that have all the distortion killing features of a prosound driver, but at 1/10th the cost.

Of course you'd need TEN of them to equal the maximum output of a prosound midrange...

After building speakers for a few years, and measuring a LOT of them, I've basically given up on using drivers with conventional motors. The distortion is simply unacceptable.

[markus76]

Originally Posted by gedlee

Dome tweeters CANNOT be constant directivity

No? Genelec 8260:



K+H O500:



Best, Markus

[gedlee]

Originally Posted by markus76

No? Genelec 8260:



K+H O500:



Best, Markus

Markus

You and I both know that your comment is misleading. THEORETICALLY no rigid piston can be CD. But a waveguide can HELP make it closer to CD over a wide angle (both those systems have small waveguides correct?). But a the narrower the angle and the wider the bandwidth that one wants CD the bigger the device has to be.

[Robh3606]

Let's say my mid-woofer has an average characteristic sensitivity of 98 dB.

Try giving a compression drivers another listen. I have 2 systems using 10" midranges with compression drivers up top. One is vintage 80's 4 way the other a more modern DIY set-up. In both cases they can give my dome based systems as run for the money.

Rob

[markus76]

Originally Posted by gedlee

THEORETICALLY no rigid piston can be CD.

But PRACTICALLY those pictures look pretty decent, don't they?

Best, Markus

[MisterTwister]

Dome tweeters in waveguides sound really good. And many tweeters have decent power handling with 29mm voice coils.
This one for example is excellent for use with a waveguide. SB Acoustics SB29RDCN-C000-4 Neo Magnet, Ring Dome from Madisound

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by markus76

No? Genelec 8260:



K+H O500:



Best, Markus

Did you measure those?

I've listened to a handful of prosound monitors with waveguide loaded domes. The Behringer Truth was brittle and unlistenable, but the Klein and Hummel 0500 was very good.

[Telstar]

Originally Posted by patrick bateman

the bottom line is that there isn't anything magical about prosound drivers. They're engineered for high spl, and due to that, they include a lot of features which reduce distortion.

qft.

[Borat]

that 0500 looks like it would have been a perfect speaker if it was sealed.

i understand why ports are slapped onto cheap boom boxes where there simply isn't enough budget to put a second woofer instead but why ports are used on $10,000+ speakers is beyond me.

why mackie can afford to use a passive radiator and foam damping in a $600 speaker but genelec and hummel can't afford the same for 5 times the $$$.