Pro vs hifi drivers - pros and cons?

[gedlee]

Originally Posted by MisterTwister

maybe we should be looking for drivers with heavier voice coil gauge? does high power handling mean that driver has heavy gauge coil?

If you look at the math for the temperature of a voice coil versus the signal level you find that the single biggest factor is simply the mass of VC conductor material. Hence the bigger the VC the lower the thermal modulation. This is completely independent of the SPL capability, but its the SPL capability that drives Pro speakers to use more copper or Aluminium. So people often quote SPL as the reason for using Pro and that they don't need that much SPL, but its much more complicated than that.

As too how much "dynamics" is needed, the speaker should never be the limiting factor in the dynamics if accurate playback is desired. Once you live with a speaker that has superior dynamics, everything else sounds compressed. No matter what the SPL.

[doug20]

As too how much "dynamics" is needed, the speaker should never be the limiting factor in the dynamics if accurate playback is desired. Once you live with a speaker that has superior dynamics, everything else sounds compressed. No matter what the SPL.

That is for sure!!

There is nothing like having properly designed speakers without limitations.

[doug20]

Originally Posted by HiFiNutNut

I am open minded. This is the model # of the Scanspeak: 18W8531G00.

You can find some tests done by Zaph here: Zaph|Audio

According to Zaph, this is one of the best (if not the absolute best) 7" drivers tested among many dozens. So it would be good if you can prove that this driver "sucks" comparing to pro drivers, in that case, we will all be converted to the pro camp, and I can ensure you I will be the first one.

I don't belong to either camp but I am currently using 18W8531G00 for the midrange from about 180Hz to 2kHz (LR4) in a MTMWW+Sub+Sub. The twin Scanspeak 18W8531G00 per channel give 94dB sensitivity and above 128dB SPL / 1m (within linear excursion) over that frequency range according to my simulation using John K's ABC Dipole, so I am not sure if that is dynamic enough comparing to a single pro driver.

I look forward to your result of comparison.

THanks for the model number, I know all about Zaph's site, I bought half the drivers listed on it (I use the B&C 6MD38-8 AND 18sound 6ND drivers over the scanspeak drivers) . but you are misquoting me on saying it sucks.

I posted that is sucks with respect too Dynamics compared to the TD12M woofer that John builds over @ Acoustic Elegance and no one can argue that point. You even proved it by having to add more drivers.

You will not get a disagreement out of me that multiple drivers of anything will have dynamics....line arrays are sweet!! The biggest problem with your mulitple driver for sensitivity theory is that you then need a ribbon tweeter to match the sensitivity or some shallow waveguide for the dome tweeter to increase its sensitivity.

Hmmm....Maybe I will buy 4 Revelator 7" drivers and use my extra Neopro5i ribbons I have unused. Then compare against my Neopro5i/PHL1120/TD12S custom design.




I have had the big towers with multiple 6 and 8" drivers and still the performance of the single 12" or 15" pro audio higher end driver is incredible.

Have you even had a chance to listen to speakers with such drivers? I would hope anyone posting in this thread have listened to both.

[doug20]

Originally Posted by J.R.Freeman

Not interested? On-axis FR is a place to start at least. I wouldn't put polar response in that list ahead of FR, depending on the application I suppose. Well how about this - if you don't like considering one parameter at a time, what about picking similar drivers from both camps and comparing them on paper? I agree the value is somewhat limited, but certainly it's enough to entertain discussion, would you agree?

I use to agree because that is all the general public ever will see published by companies.

Any expert speaker builder I know of never concern themselves with simple on axis FR plots.

Im no expert in building DIY speakers but I read enough and learned enough over the past many years to now know FR response isnt important actually compared to other measurements. Great sites like Zaphaudio.com have great measurements that people can get into the last one I ever look at is the FR plot. Too bad Zaph has went commercial so we won't see future measurements, except his own drivers

[doug20]

Originally Posted by Spasticteapot

Ditto.

I might point out that there's also practical limits to SPL requirements. I'm working on a pair of nearfield monitors meant to be used about a meter from my head. Considering that I've got a sub capable of massive hearing damage for anything below 75hz, why do I need anything more than a single well-made 7" woofer?

You don't and its a perfect choice for your application. Its 3 times the cost of similar performance but its garunteed performance so if cost isnt the biggest factor its a great solution.

Several times people have posted that its all about the specific requirements for me the scanspeak will not meet my requirements, for you it does.

Of course the best nearfield monitors I have heard are built by Genelec

[markus76]

Originally Posted by doug20

Of course the best nearfield monitors I have heard are built by Genelec

BTW has anybody more detailed information on their Coaxial-Waveguide-Thingy used in the new 8260? Genelec Oy - Genelec 8260A

Best, Markus

[J.R.Freeman]

Originally Posted by HiFiNutNut

But when all the parameters are compared and analysed, we know what (i.e pro or HiFi) to pick to suit our applications.

Very well said!

[doug20]

Originally Posted by markus76

BTW has anybody more detailed information on their Coaxial-Waveguide-Thingy used in the new 8260? Genelec Oy - Genelec 8260A

Best, Markus

Nope but I would love to listen to them. Ilkka, who use to do great subwoofer testing on HTS now works for Genelec. I wonder if he still posts on HTS.

[J.R.Freeman]

Originally Posted by panomaniac

They need to hear the elk sneaking thru the maple leaves to come steal their beers. A vital survival skill!

hehe! Good think I have a well-trained guard-beaver.

[Robh3606]

I read enough and learned enough over the past many years to now know FR response isnt important actually compared to other measurements.

Hello doug20

I can see the point about a single on axis measurement having little value. You should really measure is several locations in your chosen "window" to get a more meaningful idea of what the speaker is really doing.

I am a little perplexed that you feel FR is not important? What measurements are more important in your opinion?? When I do my own DIY I look at the Step Response, CSD, and FR but I weigh the FR as a very important indication that I have my passive crossovers summed properly and my octave to octave tonal balance will be correct.

I use mostly Pro Drivers and many of mine are dual use and have been used in both Pro and Commercial applications.

Rob