Pro vs hifi drivers - pros and cons?

[Andy G]

I have had the pleasure ??? of a trumpet going full blast in my lounge room.
It is not something I would like to do too often.
One could also say the same thing of an electric guitar, or a drummer (except using brushes)
We most often listen at home at a very different level to what is produced in an auditorium, and at a different distance, consequently there are always going to be differences. There is absolutely nothing we can do about it.
We can try to get things such as FR, CSD's etc as "correct" (whatever that means) as possible.
We can try to minimise changes to what was recorded (which may not be all that real anyway), but in the final analysis, the ONLY real guide we have to how something sounds, is 2 ears and the connected brain, should we choose to use them and trust them.

[technofreak]

Originally Posted by gedlee

Listen to enough crapping recordings over speakers that go to 40 kHz and in another million or so years our hearing will change to adapt to these new circumstances.

Only if those people that have better hearing also have higher fitness (get more offspring), which is not true these days. Because of modern medicine and human being's ability to control it's environment natural selection practically doesn't work on humans, except in the "third world".

[Andy G]

Originally Posted by technofreak

Only if those people that have better hearing also have higher fitness (get more offspring), which is not true these days. Because of modern medicine and human being's ability to control it's environment natural selection practically doesn't work on humans, except in the "third world".

Those that have more children, WILL eventually set the societal standard.. hence will be the "best fitted" to that society..

[HiFiNutNut]

Originally Posted by doug20

I do not mind using the TD12M (12" woofer) vs the Scanspeak 7". Im not interested in winning the Pro audio driver is better actually, Im more interested in finding out why someone said the scanspeak is better. Measurements are need.

What is the model # of that scanspeak. Madisound only has 8" scanspeak drivers.

I am open minded. This is the model # of the Scanspeak: 18W8531G00.

You can find some tests done by Zaph here: Zaph|Audio

According to Zaph, this is one of the best (if not the absolute best) 7" drivers tested among many dozens. So it would be good if you can prove that this driver "sucks" comparing to pro drivers, in that case, we will all be converted to the pro camp, and I can ensure you I will be the first one.

I don't belong to either camp but I am currently using 18W8531G00 for the midrange from about 180Hz to 2kHz (LR4) in a MTMWW+Sub+Sub. The twin Scanspeak 18W8531G00 per channel give 94dB sensitivity and above 128dB SPL / 1m (within linear excursion) over that frequency range according to my simulation using John K's ABC Dipole, so I am not sure if that is dynamic enough comparing to a single pro driver.

I look forward to your result of comparison.

[planet10]

Originally Posted by technofreak

Here is a measurement. My own measurements show the same..

Thanx. It has been >25 years since i actually used mine, i probably knew that at the time as they crossed to an array of piezos at the extreme top.

I still have a blown pair (and new diaphrams) stashed away.

dave

[planet10]

Originally Posted by gedlee

My wife teaches Audiology and she told me that nob ody does tests above 8 kHz, that the standard is only defined to 8 kHz and she showed me the form, which only went to 8 kHz.

A new data point for her then, my audiologist (in BC Canada) does up to 10k... somewhere i have the chart. i remember because the ear that got a broken eardrum from a springboard diving accident had a suckout at 8k.

dave

[gedlee]

Originally Posted by J.R.Freeman

Not interested? On-axis FR is a place to start at least. I wouldn't put polar response in that list ahead of FR,

I certainly would disagree here. To me the polar response is MORE IMPORTANT than the frequency response along any single axis. In fact, I believe that the axial point is the worst place to measure because it is a unique point that ignores a lot of important characteristics. BUT, I should also say that the polar response of any piston source is going to be highly predictable and mostly useless. Directivity only matters for 500 Hz. and above and in that region direct radiators don't even make the cut.

The argument here is side-stepping the real issue IMO. The total picture of an audio system is what has to be considered first - you can't start at the component level, this is a big mistake, a common mistake. You have to look at the system. The system design and how it interfaces with the all important room is the single most important thing to consider. From my research I beleive that the proper system design requires components that simply are not made by the hi-end companies. Like very large diameter woofers, and compression drivers, they always use small woofers and dome tweeters. Large diameter drivers are required to get the high directivity that a good room interface requires, and well, waveguides need no discussion.

The point here is that arguing about specific drivers and whose are best is a meaningless exercise IMO. Thats because it ignores the "system" and its the system that is omnipotent. The components are just that "components of the system". If you do the system wrong then even having the best components makes very little difference, the sound is still wrong.

An outrageous position to take, I know, but as far as I am concerned the components are all just commodities to be bought at the lowest bid. It's the system design that matters.

Ok - bring on the onslaughts, I'm going to China tomorrow so I'll be gone. Have fun.

[gedlee]

Originally Posted by HiFiNutNut

so I am not sure if that is dynamic enough comparing to a single pro driver.

It still wouldn't even come close to a compression driver on a waveguide.

[gedlee]

Originally Posted by planet10

A new data point for her then, my audiologist (in BC Canada) does up to 10k... dave

Maybe Canada is different. Dem Canadians is a different bunch you know, den EH!

[Andy G]

Originally Posted by gedlee

It still wouldn't even come close to a compression driver on a waveguide.

A point I have sometimes pondered is "do we actually require the same dynamics in a lounge room as we would get from a live instrument". As I mentioned earlier, there is no way I want to be listening to, say, a live trumpet in my lounge room. Another way to look at it may be to ask how much change in dynamics is evident at the normal listening distance from some of these louder instruments in a live situation.

Perhaps a slight decrease in dynamics is not necessarly a bad thing ?