Pro vs hifi drivers - pros and cons?

[gedlee]

Originally Posted by JoshK

What happens to transients such as rim shots when you truncate HFs?

Nothing audible.

What most people don't realize is that there is very little above 10 kHz in our natural world. Air absorption increases quite dramatically above this frequency and so the sound content for any instrument, or otherwise, is seriuosly affected. And necessarily our hearing never developed to hear sounds that aren't there.

When you are in a large hall listening to an orchestra there is nothing above 10 kHz, it's all absorbed on its way to you. When you go to a live concert they boost this way up so that they can measure it and claim that it's there, but that's about it. In a hearing test nothing above 8 kHz is ever tested and from intelligabilty tests it is know that nothing above 8 kHz adds or subtracts from intelligability. The only people who care are the marketing guys.

[Pano]

Not sure I agree with you there, Earl. A lot of Hi-fi end users care. If it doesn't have the top end sparkle, it's not hi-fi. Is that fed by the marketing, or vice-versa?

So we tend to over use it, just to prove we have it. I sure agree with you there. (surround sound suffers a similar fate)
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[gedlee]

Originally Posted by panomaniac

Not sure I agree with you there, Earl. A lot of Hi-fi end users care. If it doesn't have the top end sparkle, it's not hi-fi. Is that fed by the marketing, or vice-versa?

So we tend to over use it, just to prove we have it. I sure agree with you there. (surround sound suffers a similar fate)
.

Again, no one complains about my speakers NOT having enough hi-end, if anything they tend to sound bright because of the unusually wide coverage at 10 kHz. But these speakers don't shine at 20 kHz and I really don't care. It's all about "perception". I deal in "quantifiable auditory perception" and most people deal in "marketng perception". The two things tend to be quite different.

[thoriated]

I can still hear to 15khz or so, and HF phase differences are also audible to me so I don't know that a response to 10khz would fully employ my critical listening facilities.

[MisterTwister]

The ring diaphragm is no better damped than a dome. Its just smaller and therefor lighter.

how can it be? ring has inner and outer edges damped, while dome has only one outer edge damped.
Earl, is there a reason you've chosen driver with polyimide dome instead of titanium for your speakers?

[gedlee]

Originally Posted by thoriated

I can still hear to 15khz or so, and HF phase differences are also audible to me so I don't know that a response to 10khz would fully employ my critical listening facilities.

That you can detect a 15 kHz tone is not relavent, its the signal that doesn't contain anthing this high up - unless its added synthetically - and detecting is also not sound quality. As to phase being audible at these frequencies that absurd.

Unless you under 20 Yrs old, and you have super human hearing, your hearing will be down by 10 dB or more at 15 kHz. If you are a typical middle aged adult, it will be down by about 20-30 dB. If you are over 40 or so, its gone.

[gedlee]

Originally Posted by MisterTwister

how can it be? ring has inner and outer edges damped, while dome has only one outer edge damped.
Earl, is there a reason you've chosen driver with polyimide dome instead of titanium for your speakers?

Thats a good point, but the surround is not a major form of damping, but there is some and yes it will be greater for the double surround situation. But the main reason for the ring is the lighter diaphragm and more HF response while allowing for a larger VC.

The metal diaphragms break-up more at VHF, and they cost a lot more. The metal diaphragms are more reliable thats true, but reliability in a home system is not a big issue. I have tried and like the DE500, but its nearly twice as expensive and its not that much different.

[Pano]

Originally Posted by gedlee

Again, no one complains about my speakers NOT having enough hi-end

That's good to know. I hear so many that sound unnaturally sizzly to me. Forced hi-end
But that may be 10K or under, not sure. Stuff up that hi is so hard to identify. It's more like you sense it than feel it. For most of us old farts, anyway.

I'm quite happy with the old range of 30-15Khz.

[Andre Visser]

Originally Posted by panomaniac

I actually like stuff that is rolled off about 12-15K. Systems that go higher sound fake to me. Too sizzly. I just don't hear that stuff in real life. But everyone's ears are different.

Just sort out the HF distortions, that's what make a system sound bright or "sizzly". Undistorted flat FR to 20kHz or more certainly doesn't make a system sound bright but will surely add to SQ.

[Andre Visser]

Originally Posted by JoshK

What happens to transients such as rim shots when you truncate HFs?

Not much, it will only sound like a band playing on the other side of a stadium.