Pro vs hifi drivers - pros and cons?

[gedlee]

Originally Posted by svejkovat

There are likely others out there, but Geddes' (pro driver) designs seem to fit the bill for this thread pretty well. Just what would likely be the verdict at that imaginary DIY meet I suggested above?

I have avoided venues like you suggest and will likely continue to do so as I do not feel they are reasonable venues for serious evaluations. The rooms are poorly designed for listening and the setups seldom, if ever, optimized - its just not feasible. The listening sessions are necessarily short and never uninterupted. Making a judgement under conditions like that is simply not useful.

I do however recommend that people who are serious about the answer to the question that you pose come to my home (all are invited) and evaluate my system in the manner that I feel is correct for this kind of evaluation - no excuses are needed or offered. I have posted every single evaluation that people have offered on their experiences. I think that you will find the answer that you are looking for in those evaluations, however if these are not enough then the answer will certainly be found by a visit here. Many very serious audiophiles have made this journey, some from very far away. I have posted ALL of these on my site.

[doug20]

Originally Posted by svejkovat

May I pose it this way....

I think the original question
I wonder if anyone has showed up at any of the DIY events with a Geddes Nathan or Harper to blind test amidst the range of otherwise hi-fi constituted boxes in attendance? Especially since it gets more to the heart of the question. The equipment drivng the speakers in attendance at these events is typically that which would be used for 'hi-fi' and home theater instead of working the crowd at a large bar or concert arena.

I have been to a few different shows in the past and I always laugh at the setups. Horrible rooms, horrible music, smelly guys sitting in chairs with their eyes closed (What is that, Meditation? and take a shower please!!!)

Enough people have posted about 2009 RMAF already that has me concluding they are a joke. When you show off 100K speakers, you should be able to allow for user content and more importantly you should be able calibrate the speakers for the room AND treat the room!!

Very few of those events are about accuracy IMO or audio science so why bother. Its an Ego stroking afair amongst many that are very disconnected from reality. The best rooms I have ever experienced are always the DIYers rooms (If any exist) because those are raw, honest and humble products.

[Pano]

Audio shows are not the best listening environment, that's for sure. But calling them a joke seems harsh to me.

Perfect they are not, but they do have some huge advantages. There is no store were you will find anywhere near this number of products. Just the chance to actually see and hear some of these rigs is rare. And going from room to room let's you hear how different so many are. And how much the same so many others are. I find the quick comparison handy.

I don't believe that most of the attendees expect perfect conditions. Most understand the limitations. They are at the show to hear things they've heard or read about, and to discover new stuff. And to have fun! Most rooms welcome your CD or vinyl. And many rooms are treated. Some rooms are packed, some are empty. And it doesn't always follow sound quality.

We don't live in a perfect world, audio shows are not perfect. But I've had visitors in Denver, Las Vegas and Montreal tell me over and over how glad they are to attend. They aren't happy with most dealerships, or can't find one. Shows serve a useful purpose for the listening public and for the industry as well.

My 2 cents.

[cbdb]

Very interesting thread. Just one comment. For studio monitors 2 reasons for low freq extension. Some music has a lot of content below 40 hz; synths and low freq synthesis added to regular bases and bass drums, and low Freq noise (rumble) that the engineer needs to hear so he can get rid of it, even if no one else would hear it (which some do) it eats up a lot of headroom.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by cbdb

For studio monitors 2 reasons for low freq extension. Some music has a lot of content below 40 hz; synths and low freq synthesis added to regular bases and bass drums, and low Freq noise (rumble) that the engineer needs to hear so he can get rid of it, even if no one else would hear it (which some do) it eats up a lot of headroom.

A dedicated LF system will still allow efficiency where needed and a reduction in IMD for the midbass and up.

[J.R.Freeman]

Originally Posted by doug20

Maybe you should go over to some non-science audiophile forum then because nothing you have posted makes any sense to me.

Ouch, no need to be harsh, doug.

[J.R.Freeman]

Originally Posted by ChrisA

What I tried to say above was that there is a huge difference between reproducing recorded music and playing live. It's completely different.

Chris I think you are considering this question on more of a total system level, where (as I understand it) it's a comparison at the component level (drivers).

[Pano]

Yes, I thought the topic was the drivers - not systems.

[doug20]

Originally Posted by panomaniac

Audio shows are not the best listening environment, that's for sure. But calling them a joke seems harsh to me.

Perfect they are not, but they do have some huge advantages. There is no store were you will find anywhere near this number of products. Just the chance to actually see and hear some of these rigs is rare. And going from room to room let's you hear how different so many are. And how much the same so many others are. I find the quick comparison handy.

I don't believe that most of the attendees expect perfect conditions. Most understand the limitations. They are at the show to hear things they've heard or read about, and to discover new stuff. And to have fun! Most rooms welcome your CD or vinyl. And many rooms are treated. Some rooms are packed, some are empty. And it doesn't always follow sound quality.

We don't live in a perfect world, audio shows are not perfect. But I've had visitors in Denver, Las Vegas and Montreal tell me over and over how glad they are to attend. They aren't happy with most dealerships, or can't find one. Shows serve a useful purpose for the listening public and for the industry as well.

My 2 cents.

Thats a fair POV. Im just saying they are a joke to me nothing more, Im definitely aware some people do enjoy them. I wish I was one because like you said its the only place where we can hear some of the more exclusive speakers.

I guess my point with respect to the thread is that Pro Audio really has no need to go to these shows. Their vision has nothing to do with impressing the hi-fi crowd either, since the hi-fi crowd has little concern with measurements or high SPL, extremely low distortion designs.

In the end If someone wants the best HT speaker setup then they should really consider Pro audio type designs. 99% of the consumer stuff out there doesnt come close.

[Robh3606]

What is it exacly that hifi drivers do better than pro drivers?

Except for more bass in a smaller enclosure..

As I see it the largest difference between the two are sensitivity and power handling looking at general purpose pro drivers. Both "types" can give you excellent results however with a well set-up Pro driver system you get both a sensitivity and a power handling advantage over the other the typical "hifi" driver set-up. As I see it there is no advantage to hifi drivers.

Rob