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Old 25th June 2009, 09:10 PM   #1
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Default Low price crossover

Hello,

My friend build a small speaker pair.

We see good deal on partsexpress.

We want to know ho to build a cheap crossover for these :

Woofer
Peerless P830941 SDS 5-1/4" Shielded Woofer

Specifications: *Power handling: 60 watts RMS/110 watts max *VCdia: 1" *Le: 1.2 mH *Impedance: 8 ohms *Re: 6.1 ohms *Frequency response: 57-10,000 Hz *Fs: 57.3 Hz *SPL: 88 dB 1W/1m *Vas: 0.37 cu. ft. *Qms: 2.69 *Qes: 0.49 *Qts: 0.41 *Xmax: 3.5 mm *Dimensions: A: 6" (5.28" across flats), B: 4.6", C: 3".

Tweeter
Vifa AC25TG05-04 1" Dome Tweeter 4 Ohm

Specifications: *Power handling: 60 watts RMS/120 watts max VCdia: 1" *Impedance: 4 ohms *Re: 3.0 ohms *Frequency response: 1,100-20,000 Hz *Fs: 1,100 Hz *SPL: 90 dB 1W/1m *Dimensions: A: 4-1/8", B: 2-15/16" plus notches for terminals, C: 1".


Parts-Express have some Dali labeled tweeter too but only " and more expensive ... but efficiency is lower...


I think i will need L-pad. if anyway can calculate it in the crossover please !

thank's all !

This project is a about 100$ budget.
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Old 25th June 2009, 10:24 PM   #2
Thawach is offline Thawach  Thailand
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L-Pad

credit by PeteMcK
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Old 25th June 2009, 11:37 PM   #3
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this one will let you use a single series resistor (place it before your xover components so it doesn't affect the frequency response):
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-Lpad.htm
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Impedance varies with frequency, use impedance plots of your drivers and make crossover calculations using the actual impedance of the driver at the crossover frequency
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Old 26th June 2009, 12:38 PM   #4
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Thank's for the links,

Don't forget i need help to design entire crossover, not just the L-Pad !

Thank,s again !
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Old 26th June 2009, 10:03 PM   #5
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You can't design a XO with the information you have provided, well not a good one anyway. To properly design a XO you need actual frequency response and impedance measurements of your drivers mounted in your cabinets.

Regards,

Dennis
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Old 26th June 2009, 10:41 PM   #6
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Default Re: Low price crossover

Quote:
Originally posted by oaristys

This project is a about 100$ budget.
You mean for the crossover parts and design charges,
I assume you already have the drivers.
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Old 27th June 2009, 01:41 AM   #7
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No,

100$ for all the project.

and 100$CAD that mean about 85$USD

he can buy 99$ polk audio bookshelf at futureshop. He is not an audiophile at all. Diy is for budget reason

in the last day i understand that diy audio culture simply refuse to use same parts quality as market speaker does. But sometime, we should to !

My mission 701 speaker have two mini inductor (about batterie size) and two very small capacitor and the sound is far away good enough for this guy !

Hey where i was teen, i build a speaker with an old used polypropylene cone 12 inch woofer and a old reconed Rockford Forsgate (no sure of the name) soft dome tweeter and take used tiny polarized capacitor without checking the Farad value. lol My Father use 80's Harman Kardon kit with good JBL speakers and AKG headphones for many years and when he come to my brother home, he said "hey your speaker sound very good" lol. He don't know the story lol.

So, some people don't need 25$ caps and 30$ inductors with silver soldering to be satisfied.

All i need for this project is an just enough efficient drivers able to produce bass in small enclosure, a not agressive tweeter and basic cheap crossover. That,s all. This kind of guys don't like too "mid" or too harsh tweeter. Just warm sound as good as 100-300$ BestBuy bookshelf speaker.


I think precisely satisfied a specific need is interesting. Not just do the best hi-fi in the world or the most efficiency etc.

I'm sure you understand me.

I learn something today. If i buy a cheap NP capacitor, i can add 1uF good quality one in parallel and grow seriously the sound quality. This is a good budget idea ! A cheap inductor will make the woofer sound less Hi-Fi.. ok.. but if we place two speaker, one with theoretically perfect bass and another one with warm market type bass, he will prefer the warm one. So don't matter bass precision here.

I think buying good surplus drivers will help too. This drivers are well balanced and order for cost less and cost less to integrate.

Thank's all !
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Old 30th June 2009, 03:44 AM   #8
66Panel is offline 66Panel  Canada
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Hi oaristys,

I am very new to DIY, one thing that I will tell you that I have learned the last 6 months, build a proven design unless you have measuring equipment, it could cost you more in the long run. I am sure that many of the people here will tell you the same thing!

Paul Carmody has a new design http://undefinition.googlepages.com/...ightsensations with a BOM and you should be able to get all of the items from
http://www.solen.ca/pub/ they are good to deal with and you dont have to pay duty or customs and they know how to ship stuff and it won't arrive damaged, the cost will be very close to your budget..

66Panel
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Old 30th June 2009, 10:53 AM   #9
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In my small experience I can say that for inexpensive speakers the best value is to buy used ones.

What lot of people don't understand is that the total bill is not from only drivers and electronic parts (caps, coils, resistors), but also for wood, screws (maybe t-nuts), glue, terminals, foam, paint etc. In a project with inexpensive drivers that could account for a substantial part of the total bill. For example, in my last project with a Peerless 830656 (21 each) and a Vifa BC25TG-15 (16 each), the wood for the baffle and the MDF for the rest of the enclosures cost me 20 total, the terminals were 8 each, the screws and fasteners were 12, and so on. On a project with expensive drivers these costs are negligible.

Another cost is for tools, if you don't have. If you have a router it is OK, if not you need a lot of things (and a lot of time also): a drill for small holes and a jigsaw for larger ones, plus you need at least a rasp if you want to chamfer the woofer hole or round the baffle, and a chisel if you want to countersink the drivers.

A dyi building is also for having fun, if it is only for cost go for an used speaker.

Ralf
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Old 30th June 2009, 01:18 PM   #10
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yeah the most important problem is measuring and filter + modification to crossover.

But i know one thing. When a speaker is near perfect in the testing environment, when you place it in another house in different room, everything change. If you try to correct again you will probably retract some correction already made and add other one.

I build two project here. I just have two thing to do. Modify L-Pad a little bit and apply real wood veneer.

No measuring, no filtering.

The bigger project sound amazing (just minimal L-Pad adjustment do to) Sound better now than my Monitor Audio RS8. More true, bigger, more efficient. Little bit less "crisp" on sound stage but the MA seems to "over wrap" the element and make it too small and rikiki sounding so sharper is not necessarily better.

The important thing is to appreciate the music. Not to put a print of your graph in the wall with spot light on it.

The other project sound more different than all speakers. A kind of "Rega" sound. Maybe some measuring will be a good thing here but i like it like that so... why change it ?

I don't have lot of experience but when you put a speaker tested with a graph on specsheet and you put it on a same volume boxe, you will get what you paid for. You will not change all the things in making another box 1 inch taller and 1.5" less deep.

And in my opinion, add filter = poor driver. Never open good sounding market box with filter on crossover. I will not buying 10$ driver need 25$ filter lol.

Buy a Fostex driver and do the recommended manufacturer box and you will get true hi-fi sound.

Buy the little Sylver Flte and put it on 7lt box ported like the manufacturer recommend and you will kick *** like no other 7ltr box available on audio-video store for the same budget.

Maybe i'm wrong but i thing if you begain to tweek to seek a better sound it's because all the project is bad. Better to sell parts and stard a new one. People take lot of time and add money on the project and finaly became to like the speaker. Ear adaptation and don't want to admin the problem with so time and money invest.

Or

I'm totally wrong ! I know the better thing will probably to measure ourself the drivers in like 1 cuft and design the box and crossover with our result instead of the manufacturer one. But sound a bit funny to me. If you have to do that. How can you be sure of you driver choice !? Anybody check the manufacturer specs for choose.

Or why DIY community don't create a consortium who test itself the most popular and pertinent drivers available ? One place where all the specs and curve are real and trustable !



Finaly.. I'm not a guy who like filter the sound, active crossover etc. I like Rega because no crossover or very simple one. That's why my second project is a full range with low bass driver. Everyone in this forum tell me to use active solution. My project is finish now, with passive crossover and the sound is good. Verry proud of me. Small speaker, detachable mini-monitor section and drivable with 35watt amp. For about 300$Us for everything. From drivers to the fuel in the car.

My experienced brother said i'm very lucky to get as good result with no measuring. Ok, maybe. But i have a secret for him... When i try my speaker in old 80's 30 watt cheap amp, the sound is not good. ho no ! But my 2 000$ speaker sound not good too !

Plug in my Shanling STP-80 with good DAC and respectable wiring and every instrument take place in the sound stage with comfortable sounding system. This is why i don't like plate amp, T amp, full of amp anywhere with active crossover and 36 cables ! lol. I'm sure some people on planet think filtering the speaker when in reality, filter the sound system ... :S


Anyway, when you play a 1 000Hz sine and the sound pressure change when you move your head, it's not a pertinent thing to filter peak ... And all speaker are affected by this phenomenon...
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