what effects soundstage depth - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th June 2009, 03:39 PM   #11
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Dave,

the speakers are an RB-kit in a transmission line.

I used Martin Kings alignment tables to arrive at a length of 39 inch and went with a 10 to 1 taper. The drivers are about two to four inches higher than recommended. The stuffing is somewhat on the light side since I found the sound to be a bit closed with more stuffing. This is the first TL I've built so I'm not really sure how they could effect the sound if there is a mistake in the calculations or execution.


D
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 03:45 PM   #12
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Guelph, Ontario
oh, and as for recordings, i have a handful of opus and proprius disks and some test disks with well made two mic recordings. One of them is Jazz at the Pawnshop which is handy since its ubiquitous.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 04:46 PM   #13
diyAudio Member
 
ashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: 3RS
Quote:
Polar pattern, room acoustics. All else is minor, assuming (as Dave points out) that the recording is well-made in that respect.
....by SY

Simply said but more complex in application. But I think this sums up most things 'simply'.

Having spent many years chasing the Holy Grail for sound , I think there is no 'ultimate response' possible to offer to mankind in general. Why do you think so many people ( as seen on this and other forums ) keep changing their systems so many times ?
There is NO single/multiple 'performance parameter(s)' that is acceptable to all ! Can reproduced sound actually get better and better every year for over 50 years ( for example ). That means every year the reviewers still haven't figured out what IS the ultimate 'real' home performance.
Many people like to listen to what THEY think sounds real ( or just what they LIKE ). That has many interpretations. It's good , as it keeps a great hi-fi business afloat !
I know many people who will spend oodles of money on systems they 'think' sounds best to them, though it might be something I don't like at all .
The business is now more about catering to the fluctuating taste of the hi-fi public. Isn't it ?
We will never reach a state where knowledgeable people or not will find one FINAL design solution that will be deemed to be 'accurate live sound' by all. No it can't happen! We are finiky Humans after all. It's great for the Hi-fi business!


Edit: Sorry my blurb is off topic ! Didn't realise it when I typed it. I'm in a 'bubbly mood' and about to hit the sack tonight !
__________________
AM
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 04:56 PM   #14
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally posted by kifeinthesink
the speakers are an RB-kit in a transmission line.

I used Martin Kings alignment tables to arrive at a length of 39 inch and went with a 10 to 1 taper. The drivers are about two to four inches higher than recommended. The stuffing is somewhat on the light side since I found the sound to be a bit closed with more stuffing. This is the first TL I've built so I'm not really sure how they could effect the sound if there is a mistake in the calculations or execution.
What did you build them out of and how well braced are they? Drivers rebated? Square edges on the front of the box.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 12:32 AM   #15
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Guelph, Ontario
half inch MDF, no bracing aside from the taper of the line, the tweeter is not recessed, and there are no roundovers.

Guess that says a lot.

I didn't try to finesse these since I wasn't sure what to expect from my TL calculations and I plan to make nicer cabinets once I know I'm happy with the design.

I can try round overs and recess the tweeter, and I can fill the back chamber with sand.


D
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 12:43 AM   #16
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally posted by kifeinthesink
half inch MDF, no bracing aside from the taper of the line, the tweeter is not recessed, and there are no roundovers.
If the line is folded that is a fair amount of side-to-side bracing. 1/2" MDF is like using 6mm of plywood in terms of stiffness, and will ooze a fair amount of low-lwvwl grunge which will tend to bury imaging clues.

Get yourself a mechanics stethescope and have a listen to the box while it is playing.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 02:19 AM   #17
diyAudio Member
 
Andersonix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Silicon Valley
I've found there is very good imaging in rooms where there is very good L-R geometric symmetry with the speakers, room boundaries, windows (and glass doors), and large furnishings.

For good soundstage depth, I believe speakers need to come out into the room plus have no furnishings or CRT on the front wall between the speakers.

(But the image and depth need to be in the recording, and sadly the better my speakers and room have gotten, the less often it isn't there. But when it's there....!)
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 02:53 AM   #18
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally posted by Tosh
very good L-R geometric symmetry with the speakers, room boundaries, windows (and glass doors), and large furnishings.
Not my room

Quote:
I believe speakers need to come out into the room
Maybe 1/2-1 m out

Quote:
no furnishings or CRT on the front wall between the speakers.
nope.

Get the right speakers in and it sounds like that whole end of the room has disappeared...

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 05:24 AM   #19
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: none
At one time I was interesting in writing a software library for simulating directional audio in games in the like. I did a survey of the literature, and while I've forgotten most of it and lost my notes, I remember there are *at least* 11 separate mechanisms by which we perceive the directionality of sound.

In the case of speakers, add to this the speakers interaction with the room, and things are very complicated indeed.

There is a really interesting technical solution however, and one that doesn't require repeated format changes like stereo to 5.1 to 7.1 and so on, but it would require the industry to change from discrete representations to spherical harmonics used in a scalable number of channels. Even if this doesn't happen, as the number of channels moves up I suspect some clever company will do some dsp processing of the 10.2 (or whatever) format signal to try to reconstruct a soundfield and then play it back on an arbitrary number of speakers with largely arbitrary location.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 05:54 AM   #20
Key is offline Key  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
If you can remember any of the 11 I'd like to hear them. I personally think phase relation of sounds is top priority when it comes to perceived directionality.

Heh my system that I have come up with is exactly like what you are talking about. It's easier to explain visually and with an audio demonstration but basically take ideal stereo and define it as an equilateral triangle. Then if you want two more channels (quad) add two more triangles. If you want more coverage then add two more speakers making 6 triangles arranged as a hexagon within a circle. It's fairly simple actually and it's not that far off from what I have seen old pros from the 70s say they used.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
imaging and stage depth peterr Full Range 29 2nd March 2008 10:31 PM
Cabinet depth effects googler Multi-Way 1 6th March 2005 02:21 AM
Depth of Peerless CSX 10inch? macky888 Multi-Way 3 23rd May 2004 12:45 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:05 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2