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Old 18th June 2009, 03:54 PM   #11
Helmuth is offline Helmuth  Netherlands
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Precise where are we looking at.
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Old 18th June 2009, 05:47 PM   #12
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ARTA can calculate those from the impulse response using the Burst Decay function. Here's a sonogram of a cheap sound card.
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Old 18th June 2009, 05:49 PM   #13
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And a waterfall.
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Old 18th June 2009, 05:50 PM   #14
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And another waterfall.
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Old 19th June 2009, 03:22 AM   #15
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Default Re: Measured monopole and dipole room responses

Quote:
Originally posted by Elias

Particularly I try to pay attention to temporal behaviour since as I believe steady state measurements in this case are pretty useless when considering human perception.

- Elias
I think that a strong case could be made that we hear LF ONLY in the steady state. It is well know that the ear has an integration time of about 10-20 ms. over which all sound arrivals are integrated into a single event. This corresponds to a period of about 100 Hz, meaning that a 100 Hz signal is basicaly not even recognized by or hearing until more than antire period has ellapsed. How is it then that we could "perceive" transients of these LF signals?

I only ever look at steady state signals at LF because I am convinced that this is all that we can perceive.

Above 500 Hz the situation is quite different and in fact changes 180 degrees - transients and <10ms impulses are the most important.
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Old 19th June 2009, 03:50 AM   #16
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elias
In the case of the dipole the bass notes are clearly separated and it is easy to follw the bass line, whereas in the case of the monopole the bass sounds like it's never going to die out and the bass line is mudded.


- Elias
I also hear this as well, particularly that image depth is preserved in this region. The classic example is a drum kit moving forward (toward the loudspeakers) vs. a drum kit preserved further into the "background" (no matter where you put them in the room comparing one type to the other at the same position).

On the other hand I've gotten *very* similar results paying careful attention to the driver/baffle coupling, overall weight, and significant attention paid to the in-box pressure and any fiber-fill restricting driver motion.
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Old 19th June 2009, 02:00 PM   #17
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScottG


I also hear this as well,
The thing that impresses me most about speakers like the Orion, is the bass, it is very good, better than monopoles at the same locations. But its NOT better than multiple subs, in fact I don;t think that its as good. Basically once you go to multiple subs the type of source is almost irrelavent, except that monopoles require less power. I don't think that the comparison should be between dipoles and monopoles, but between dipoles and multiple subs. Small numbers of monopoles, like one, is pretty much a disaster.
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Old 19th June 2009, 03:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by gedlee


The thing that impresses me most about speakers like the Orion, is the bass, it is very good, better than monopoles at the same locations. But its NOT better than multiple subs, in fact I don;t think that its as good. Basically once you go to multiple subs the type of source is almost irrelavent, except that monopoles require less power. I don't think that the comparison should be between dipoles and monopoles, but between dipoles and multiple subs. Small numbers of monopoles, like one, is pretty much a disaster.
Given the radiation pattern of dipoles, one could say that they're mimicking multiple sub, as the front and rear waves are exciting different portions of the room.
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Old 19th June 2009, 04:13 PM   #19
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by badman


Given the radiation pattern of dipoles, one could say that they're mimicking multiple sub, as the front and rear waves are exciting different portions of the room.
I would tend to agree with this. In a room simulation, one models a dipole as two sources, close together, and out of phase. How close, depends on the "dipole moment" (which is seldom talked about). The larger the dipole moment the more a dipole acts like two sources - correlated, to be sure, but still two sources.

So I tend to agree with you, but there isn't any real way to prove it that I can see.

In simulations of multiple dipoles versus multiple monopoles, they tend to be about the same as far as smoothness and spatial uniformity go (on the average, but each specfic case is different), but a huge difference in power required.
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Old 19th June 2009, 04:46 PM   #20
badman is offline badman  United States
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Can you define "Dipole Moment" for me w.r.t. acoustics? I've seen references occasionally but not ever in such a way that I have it in-mind beyond a relationship to the size of the side cancellation node(s).
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