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Old 5th October 2012, 11:03 AM   #151
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with a sealed box woofer for example, there is little point is spending the money (IMO) for a woofer with cut off well below the room's first mode (F1) if the room is going to boost the bass below F1. You will just end up cutting the low bass with eq to compensate for the excess pressurization.
Agreed but how would the average consumer ever know what the first mode in his room is? And for 115dB SPL movie reference at the listening position (!) I have yet to see a case where one would want a woofer to have a higher cut off (or better, less air-moving capabilities).

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Old 5th October 2012, 11:20 AM   #152
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I have yet to see a case where one would want a woofer to have a higher cut off (or better, less air-moving capabilities).
HT and music are different applications that need different systems or "tactics" unless you are often listening to organ music or what not. In typical music there is not much information below..say 25Hz.
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Old 5th October 2012, 11:24 AM   #153
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HT and music are different applications that need different systems or "tactics" unless you are often listening to organ music or what not.
I don't think they need different "tactics". From a practical standpoint only max. SPL requirements differ.
Different use cases allow for different implementations, yes, but any use case benefits from less modal ringing and a smooth frequency response.
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Old 5th October 2012, 11:25 AM   #154
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What exactly was shocking you ?
At the time, the fact that the dipole excited the modes in that frequency range so much more than the monopole or cardioid. I was not expecting that. Maybe shocking is too strong a word. I was surprised might be better stated. The only explanation I could think of is that the cardioid and monopole excite additional modes in that frequency range which have opposite phase and lead to smoother over all response. It's like I have said before; that a dipole excites fewer modes doesn't necessarily lead to smoother response. It's a mixed bag.
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Old 5th October 2012, 11:32 AM   #155
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At the time, the fact that the dipole excited the modes in that frequency range so much more than the monopole or cardioid.
Very uncommon for someone advocating (?) dipoles to present such data. Kudos to you. At times the monopole/dipole discussion gets way too dogmatic which really prevents progress.
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Old 5th October 2012, 11:36 AM   #156
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Agreed but how would the average consumer ever know what the first mode in his room is? And for 115dB SPL movie reference at the listening position (!) I have yet to see a case where one would want a woofer to have a higher cut off (or better, less air-moving capabilities).
That's why I supplied a spread sheet with the plans. The build would input his room dimensions and the suggested woofer cut off would pop out. The speaker were design with music in mind.

Well, like I said, I find HT bass annoying, both at home and in theaters.
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Old 5th October 2012, 11:40 AM   #157
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From a practical standpoint only max. SPL requirements differ.
Only ? This is exactly such a requirement that makes a big difference imho
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Old 5th October 2012, 11:41 AM   #158
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That's why I supplied a spread sheet with the plans. The build would input his room dimensions and the suggested woofer cut off would pop out.
Do you get a lot of feedback how good this works in real rooms? I'd think there are more variables to account for than just room dimensions.

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The speaker were design with music in mind.
What does that mean?

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Well, like I said, I find HT bass annoying, both at home and in theaters.
Everybody has his preference
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Old 5th October 2012, 11:43 AM   #159
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At the time, the fact that the dipole excited the modes in that frequency range so much more than the monopole or cardioid. I was not expecting that. Maybe shocking is too strong a word. I was surprised might be better stated. The only explanation I could think of is that the cardioid and monopole excite additional modes in that frequency range which have opposite phase and lead to smoother over all response. It's like I have said before; that a dipole excites fewer modes doesn't necessarily lead to smoother response. It's a mixed bag.
Thanks, I was not sure if you were referring to the picture 2 pages back.
Could this be a placement / room issue or did you observe that in multiple rooms ?
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Old 5th October 2012, 12:19 PM   #160
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Do you get a lot of feedback how good this works in real rooms? I'd think there are more variables to account for than just room dimensions.
In a word, no.

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What does that mean?

It means I would not recommend my speaker for the typical HT/movie set up. If movies are your thing you should look for something else. If your HT is for viewing concert DVDs that's another issue. But then you don't need 115 dB at 20 Hz.
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