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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Measured monopole and dipole room responses
Measured monopole and dipole room responses
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Old 5th October 2012, 02:11 PM   #171
markus76 is offline markus76  Germany
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Although dipoles outperform monopoles in a small room in most relevant metrics
That's exactly the claims I was talking about...
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Old 5th October 2012, 03:35 PM   #172
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by john k... View Post
But the idea that you can plot a dipole woofer down anywhere and get superior bass because it excites fewer modes just doesn't bear out.
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Thanks, 'completely agree. And hence the same is true with monopoles being kind of the opposite animal. Both need some thoughts where to drop them.
John - I too completly agree

2Pi - the same is true of monopoles, but not because they are "opposite". Its simply because at LFs the room is the dominate factor and the source does not make that much difference. Everything that is true of one type of source is also true of all the others - room placement matters, the number matters, the LFs have to be EQ'd, etc. It all comes down to the same thing - so just use simple monopoles and be done with it.

Sighted subjective justifications for one type sub just doesn't cut it with me. They are not "data".
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Old 5th October 2012, 03:38 PM   #173
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Although dipoles outperform monopoles in a small room in most relevant metrics
How so? I found in all my studies that there were no significant differences. What objective metrics do you use?
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Old 5th October 2012, 03:51 PM   #174
6.283 is offline 6.283  Germany
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I agree that active absorption is more practical but I'm not sure which frequency range you're talking about.
I was not even talking about active absorption. Just minimizing room interaction by radiation pattern.
When I talk bass then I talk about everything below the Schröder F because you have to consider the whole range with its unique behavior. So bass can go up to 180...250Hz typically.

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The location of subs is freed from placement of the mains below 80Hz. Several solutions for modal control become feasible.
Right but what about above 80Hz ? I would prefer to just keep on moving with directional behavior.

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There are claims that dipoles would always outperform monopoles but I've yet to see conclusive data.
It is simply not that easy.
I would, however, dare to state the following:
If you have ONE dipole or ONE monopole in a system as sub, then the dipole will be better (assumed that both integrate equally well with the sats, which is another issue and assumed that both can be optimally be placed).
But things can change with more monopoles. Multi sub arrays with 2 or better 4 monopoles can be very good. But this has already to be considered a customized installation. And if that is better than two well placed gradient woofers...would have been nice to read in the cited paper

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One advantage of a dipole (and cardoid) is its variable room interaction with rotation. But then again I've never seen a speaker utilizing such an approach.
How's that ? Lots of freedom to rotate

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Old 5th October 2012, 03:55 PM   #175
markus76 is offline markus76  Germany
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at LFs the room is the dominate factor and the source does not make that much difference.
It does when the source is close. It also might matter in a general sense when we look at the very common use case of a free standing speaker. This is the configuration that most people use but I've never seen simulations comparing different radiation patterns, let alone measurements.

Last edited by markus76; 5th October 2012 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 5th October 2012, 04:00 PM   #176
markus76 is offline markus76  Germany
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6.283, I wasn't talking about subs but about dipole midwoofer in the mains (>80Hz). Never seen a concept that would let the user rotate the midbass unit. This would be a significant advantage compared to a boxed speaker.
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Old 5th October 2012, 04:20 PM   #177
CLS is offline CLS  Taiwan
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.... Never seen a concept that would let the user rotate the midbass unit. ....
Do you mean the dipole midbass in a multiway system can rotate individually to get optimum angle related to the room?

What's the preferable range of that midbass?
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Old 5th October 2012, 04:29 PM   #178
markus76 is offline markus76  Germany
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Do you mean the dipole midbass in a multiway system can rotate individually to get optimum angle related to the room?
Yes.

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What's the preferable range of that midbass?
Around the Schröder frequency.
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Old 5th October 2012, 04:52 PM   #179
6.283 is offline 6.283  Germany
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6.283, I wasn't talking about subs but about dipole midwoofer in the mains (>80Hz). Never seen a concept that would let the user rotate the midbass unit. This would be a significant advantage compared to a boxed speaker.
But if you rotate the mid bass then the direct sound diminishes and I am not eve sure that there is a big issue in that range as the source is already directional, hence there is less room interaction.
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Old 5th October 2012, 04:55 PM   #180
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It does when the source is close.
Which equals higher directivity in a sense to some extent.
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