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Old 9th June 2009, 05:55 PM   #21
rjp366 is offline rjp366  United States
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Default HOW about JBL 4-way?

http://www.goldsound.net/kit14.htm

JBL 4-way, 18"kit from Gold Sound.

I propose that this is the solution to getting the live sound in your home.

Of course you don't have to have JBL but you do have to have the following in abundance:
EFFICIENCY, DISPERSION, WOOFER CONE AREA, LOW DISTORTION, QUICK TRANSIENT RESPONSE, POWER.

I suppose that if you want to use any drivers of lower efficiency then you would need more of them, such as MTM at least, or a vertical array of many more likely.

When I began this link I was not thinking of an all-out PRO driver system but after reading the threads from the Australian fellow who was trying to reproduce the symphony in his home it became clear to me.

Building a system that can cause you to go deaf without even trying hard and without distortion, will also give you the ability, at reduced levels, to reproduce everything with an effortless and fluid grace and naturalness that is not achievable any other way.

PLEASE DISAGREE with me if you can, and add more comments to further my education!

PS. - to those that keep saying this is an impossible task, buy the JBL kit above and put it in your living room and then write back to me! But seriously, I used to have an old JBL system with 12" woofer and Bullet tweeter and it produced a HUGE sound with no distortion. I would worry a little bit about harming your ears with that bullet tweeter though, because it would cause pain at high levels without even sounding bad!
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Old 9th June 2009, 06:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by StigErik
I've had a guitarist playing with all knobs on 11 on his 4x12" Marshall and a full drumkit in my listening room. There is no way a loudspeaker system could ever ever create an illusion of that.....
Didn't the 4x12" Marshall do it?
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Old 9th June 2009, 09:09 PM   #23
maduras is offline maduras  Canada
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Default being there

Hi RJP366

go to a unamplyfied concert,and this is what you will hear.No distortion,no phasing issues,no lobing no time delay,no xover distortion,etc etc and ofcourse no stereo sound since we have not made any instruments that can do that.
All we can do is create a illusion and that includes your JBL speaker as it will have all the above mentioned problems.
Cheers
Maduras
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Old 9th June 2009, 09:20 PM   #24
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OK. We cannot reproduce exactly the live event. Big deal.
What I state is that a BIG fault of conventional system is dynamic contrasts . Horn systems, as acoustic amplifiers, are good at reproducing that aspect of live music. When you go back to bass reflex, for example, you feel cheated...

delta SPL/delta t
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Old 10th June 2009, 04:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by gainphile
Physics do not allow wavefront particle reproduction of live concert with two speakers in a livingroom. It is simply impossible, even if you draw dots on the cone, ports, or corner of the room

The best we can hope for is creating illusion of the actual event, and the design topology of the loudspeakers is the main contributor.
G'day gainphile,

I completely agree with you that you can't reproduce a live concert with two speakers in a livingroom.

But if we are talking about "creating an illusion of the actual event", then EnABL (drivers or otherwise) does offer some significant sonic benefits.

Cheers,

Alex
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Old 10th June 2009, 04:43 AM   #26
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Quote:
Didn't the 4x12" Marshall do it?
Good point but I think that you have forgotten one small detail here, the Marshalls ARE the musical instrument in this instance, they are acting as an integral part of the guitar/amp/musician interface
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Old 10th June 2009, 04:34 PM   #27
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaVo
Ok, apart from these obviously useless musings, to achieve a "they are here" sound, you have to place the performance in YOUR room. The only way to do this is to use a speakers design, that looks at the room as part of the reproduction chain. You have to excite your own rooms reverb in a controlled manner. Look at Earl Geddes Summa paper on www.gedlee.com.
Exactly because do "you are there" is virtually impossible, I will settle for the opposite, the "they are here", as explained before, which i believe it is best portrayed through Open Baffle speakers.
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Old 10th June 2009, 06:43 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moondog55


Good point but I think that you have forgotten one small detail here, the Marshalls ARE the musical instrument in this instance, they are acting as an integral part of the guitar/amp/musician interface
My point was that they are a loudspeaker and have the efficiency and SPL capability to produce exactly what you say can't be produced, or reproduced. Think of recording what was played and then playing it back on the Marshall.

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Old 10th June 2009, 06:54 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by maxlorenz
OK. We cannot reproduce exactly the live event. Big deal.
What I state is that a BIG fault of conventional system is dynamic contrasts . Horn systems, as acoustic amplifiers, are good at reproducing that aspect of live music. When you go back to bass reflex, for example, you feel cheated...

delta SPL/delta t
That would be slew rate, wouldn't it?

EDTI: Facetiously speaking. Power compression can, of course, be present in non-negligible quantities.
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Old 10th June 2009, 09:00 PM   #30
BobM is offline BobM  United States
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In my experience you can have a live and dynamic sound (using horns) or a stereo correct soound (using conventional drivers, planers, etc.) but you generally can't have both (of good quality).

Live amplified sound isn't location specific. It fills the space that it is in, and that's part of the problem (as stated earlied), Your smallish listening room can't reproduce the hall size, therefore you need some kind of time delay or reverb or ambiphonic manipulation to achieve something like this. But that also prohibits you from moving around the room itself, makinig you still sit in a sweet spot for the most part.

Stereo sound, as produced in a studio, requires precise balance between the speakers and a location specific seating as well. However, due to compression (at the extreme these days) the dynamic life is sucked out completely.

Now unamplified music is a whole other ball of string, and we have a long way to go to come close to reproducing that in a room. Although the tonal balance of recorded instruments is opretty damn good these days, the microdynamics and other queues that make it real just aren't there yet.

Bob
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