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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

How to achieve the LIVE sound? Like you ARE THERE?
How to achieve the LIVE sound? Like you ARE THERE?
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Old 8th June 2009, 05:43 PM   #11
Elias is offline Elias  Finland
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How to achieve the LIVE sound? Like you ARE THERE?

-> www.ambiophonics.org

Dig into it, deeply.

- Elias
Liberate yourself from the illusion of two speaker stereo triangle
Dipole Bass vs Monopole Bass Stereophonic Sound from a Single Loudspeaker 3 Speaker Linear Stereo Matrix Wavelets
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Old 8th June 2009, 05:54 PM   #12
Mr Evil is offline Mr Evil  United Kingdom
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Originally posted by cbdb
And unless you listen alone the sweet spot is wider with no phantom centre, (or do you like the vocal moving out of centre when you move around)
I agree with this. Even with two-channel recordings, the addition of a centre channel gives a huge increase in the size of the sweet spot. Extracting ambience information and sending that to the two rear channels increases it further, and reduces the impact of the room's acoustics.

But if you want absolute realism, you need binaural recordings and headphones.
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Old 8th June 2009, 06:52 PM   #13
rjp366 is offline rjp366  United States
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Default To streamline your thoughts...

TO keep everyone on the same page if possible:
I am not talking about a crappy bar band in your living room with a crappy albeit LOUD sound system.

Think about a "medium plus a little more" SPL level rendering of a solo guitar or vocals, OR a violin or whatever moves you. We all have had an experience where you are around the corner, or in the next room and you thought, "that really sounds good like there is a musician in the next room!"

And those that say that it is impossible or undesirable to reproduce accurate sound as if it were LIVE, maybe I am using the wrong words but the paragraph above should add some illumination.

Thank you again :^)
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Old 8th June 2009, 07:21 PM   #14
StigErik is offline StigErik  Norway
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I've had a guitarist playing with all knobs on 11 on his 4x12" Marshall and a full drumkit in my listening room. There is no way a loudspeaker system could ever ever create an illusion of that.....
dipoles dipoles dipoles dipoles dipoles dipoles dipoles dipoles and dipoles
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Old 9th June 2009, 12:50 AM   #15
cyclotronguy is offline cyclotronguy  United States
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I've heard recorded sound live in modest sized rooms, one thing has been predominate in all those events, aside from well controlled acoustics.... the speaker have usually been very efficient and larger than live, so to speak.

I'm remembering Augsberger monitors, twin 15" Tad Midrange drivers, compression tweeters and even larger woofers.

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Old 9th June 2009, 01:28 AM   #16
maxlorenz is offline maxlorenz  Chile
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SPL: it must be loud enough
TONAL BALANCE: it all must be loud enough, not just mid-bass and treble.
EFFICIENCY: I think high end pro drivers and/or horn drivers tend to help achieve the effect we are talking about here.
POWER RESPONSE more important than FREQUENCY response, I guess?
TRANSIENT RESPONSE "fast" light weight cones?
DRIVER TIME ALIGNMENT FULL-RANGE driver? or hybrid full-range with more bass added like the Nomad Audio "Ronin"?
ADDITIONAL amplification for each driver like the Orions?
ACTIVE crossovers?
It sounds like you are describing my Tannoy Autograph Speakers... They have life-like dynamics and spatial scale...

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Old 9th June 2009, 02:45 AM   #17
RJ is offline RJ  United States
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The secret is in the midrange. I've been putting together a system from the first of the year and it's narrowed down to this.
Preamp - Behringer tube hybrid.
Amp - Peavey Windsor 100 watt tube amp. Replaced the tubes with 6CA7's and Mullard 12AX7.
Speakers - 2 Crate 4x12's with Compression horn tweeters. B&C DE10 with Pyle PH12 horn.
McIntosh CD player.

Metallica's Enter Sandman cranked up will blow you away. Like being front row and the best part of it was as clear & clean as can be.

I'm not done yet. To fill the vertical hole I'm adding two more Crate 4x12's, sorta MTM style but huge...

Also plays pop, jazz & classical very well. The big surprise was listening to Trance. The swirling dervish of instruments in a deep & wide soundstage was simply great..
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Old 9th June 2009, 05:00 AM   #18
Alex from Oz is offline Alex from Oz  Australia
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Default Re: How to achieve the LIVE sound? Like you ARE THERE?

Originally posted by rjp366
I am talking about the whole experience, not just the volume. The perfect speakers would still sound real at low levels as well as high levels. They also would sound real at many different listening positions.


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Old 9th June 2009, 05:19 AM   #19
maduras is offline maduras  Canada
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Since violins.accoustic gitars,trumpets drums,etc etc
are all PRODUCING sound,and any stereo is REPRODUCING sound, this is impossible.
But anyone here on this board including me have fun trying.

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Old 9th June 2009, 09:06 AM   #20
gainphile is offline gainphile  Australia
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Physics do not allow wavefront particle reproduction of live concert with two speakers in a livingroom. It is simply impossible, even if you draw dots on the cone, ports, or corner of the room

The best we can hope for is creating illusion of the actual event, and the design topology of the loudspeakers is the main contributor.


"It is possible to reproduce a stereo recording in an ordinary living room such that listeners have the illusion that the two loudspeakers have disappeared and when they close their eyes, they can easily imagine to be present at the recording site.

The vast majority of loudspeakers that have been sold - the typical box speakers - can only produce this effect to a limited degree because of a fundamental limitation: they radiate sound into the room with different intensity at different frequencies and angles, though flat on axis. Thus the many reflections from room boundaries and surfaces become sonically colored in a way that is characteristic for this type of loudspeaker and we always recognize the sound as coming from a box rather than being live. It is the generic loudspeaker sound.

Loudspeakers with frequency independent, constant directionality such as omni, dipole or cardioid loudspeakers, create delayed replicas of the direct sound in a room and fewer colored reflections. Our ear/brain perceptual apparatus does not get confused by replicas. Instead it relegates them to the earlier learned acoustic behavior of the room and readily blankets that information and thereby the room. This automatic response is part of the Precedence Effect in psychoacoustics and it is essential for creating the illusion of "being there" and not just in your living room."

A nice read on some of the extremes people go through for this "live" sound. Not your everyday "tweak"


Click the image to open in full size.
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