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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 13th May 2009, 12:47 PM   #11
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Full range with a helper woofer in the same vein as P10's, but bigger with front mounted woofer, promising plan, but sadly not realized yet.

Aluminum Bliss
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Old 13th May 2009, 01:06 PM   #12
adason is offline adason  United States
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another way of doing a 2-way is to use coaxial drivers
I have tried few, not the most expensive ones, just B&C coaxials, sammi sound coax, fake coaxials like lafayette, bozak, lots of other vintage 2-way with tweeter infront of midwoofer
there is something pleasing about tweeter in the middle of midrange driver, coherency or whatever, brain just has to work less to believe the sound
there is a reason so many studios rely on altec or tannoy monitors based on coaxial drivers
I thought I just bring this in....
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Old 13th May 2009, 01:15 PM   #13
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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The coaxial is next best thing for geometrical coherency of wave launch after the full range.
The way P10 crosses low (same idea in my link too), ear is far more insensitive to recognize 2 distinct sources. So it maybe has the edge over the coax for geometrical-mechanical and crossing reasons smack in sensitive 2k-4k area that the 1inch tweeters need, either separate or coax. The crossing problems retreat while the wave launch considerations are best served in the most sensitive region. A good approach IMHO.
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Old 13th May 2009, 05:00 PM   #14
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Salas,

Your Seas/HDS 2 way looks intriguing. Where is that one documented?

Roger
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Old 13th May 2009, 05:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salas
Full range with a helper woofer in the same vein as P10's, but bigger with front mounted woofer, promising plan, but sadly not realized yet.
Excellent.

Part of the idea behind Tysen was to illustrate the concept. With all the new small "full-ranges" now available, and a wealth of decent midbasses, there are a huge number of applicable combinations. With the XO so low it becomes MUCH less objectionable and usually much simplier.

For instance, in the queue we have a "vintage" one (2 8" coral midwoofs + TB 3"), an MTM with FF85 + Silver Flute W14, Jordan JX150 + Alpair 5.

dave
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Old 13th May 2009, 05:21 PM   #16
Salas is offline Salas  Greece
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Quote:
Originally posted by roger_lew
Salas,

Your Seas/HDS 2 way looks intriguing. Where is that one documented?

Roger
Nowhere. I have the Leap crossover schematic data, I must measure the cabinet dimensions when I will visit my friend's place really soon and I will post here.
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Old 13th May 2009, 11:21 PM   #17
stoc005 is offline stoc005  United States
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Default Comment about 2-ways

One thing I hear when I listen to a 2-way design is doppler distortion. That is when a bass note modulates the higher frequency(s) in the woofer/mid. I find it most often when there is a female singer holding a note. Sounds like your speaker is being moved back and forth at the same rate as the bass note causing doppler shift to the female voice, which makes the voice sound just plain wrong. I have a 2-way with the XO at 1.8K. Doesn't seem to happen with a 3-way.
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Old 13th May 2009, 11:26 PM   #18
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Default Re: Comment about 2-ways

Quote:
Originally posted by stoc005
a 2-way design is doppler distortion...nyour speaker is being moved back and forth at the same rate as the bass note causing doppler shift to the female voice, which makes the voice sound just plain wrong. I have a 2-way with the XO at 1.8K. Doesn't seem to happen with a 3-way.
Doesn't happen in a FAST either (ie 2-ways like Tysen or the J6/alcone of Salas). XO is low enuff that the mid-tweeter is covering most of that range. And you don't have an XO in the most critical/sensitive range (1.5-4k or so). Remember... XOs are evil. If you have to use one, take steps to make them less evil.

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Old 14th May 2009, 12:22 AM   #19
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Default Re: Comment about 2-ways

Quote:
Originally posted by stoc005

One thing I hear when I listen to a 2-way design is doppler distortion.

Doesn't seem to happen with a 3-way.

My 3ways have done that too, and the cause was from crossover, as its gone with later adjustments, or lets say different xo
I still hear it accationally when when trying new adjustments
Even very small variations can cause it
Its quite audible

Dave, I find it quite amusing that you continues to claim that crossovers are evil, or even use that term
But "fast" systems are 2ways as well, and maybe even worse as they mostly are restricted to the subamp filter chosen by factory

A lot of good sounding systems wouldnt exist without crossovers
And I would like to point out that just because a lot of multiway speakers doesnt work too good, it doesnt mean that it cant be done

But I admit that a 3way is awfully difficult, and 100% it will never be
2ways are by nature much better, with respect to crossover issues

I would say that most claims about this and that are merely theoretical and not proven

I haver never really believed in active crossover, but they seem to make so many people happy, that I have to try it(again), some day


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Old 14th May 2009, 12:31 AM   #20
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Default Re: Re: Comment about 2-ways

XOs are evil for sure, a FAST moves the XO quite low where it is less objectionable. A number of reasons, we are less sensitive, wavelengths are longer so drivers can be brought closer together, easier to choose drivers with a big overlap so that the XO can be simplier. And then active -- particularily PLLXO takes even more evil out.

Quote:
Originally posted by tinitus
But "fast" systems are 2ways as well, and maybe even worse as they mostly are restricted to the subamp filter chosen by factory
Only if you compromise by using a plate amp (most of them would need modding to work properly with a FAST unless using a fairly big mid-tweeter -- bottlehead's is a good example). I use separate amps and roll my own XOs (so far i've gotten away with PLLXOs, but we are working on buffered PLLXOs).

dave


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