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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 10th May 2009, 10:38 PM   #11
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by feeblechimp
Hello ScottG

I'm looking to build a relatively high end neutral / full sounding floorstander for stereo. I do have a subwoofer but would prefer to use it just for HT
Will be looking to build rears and centre at a later date but will see how I do with these first. Woodworking/DIY skills are not a problem. The only potential problem I have is the design/build of the crossover as I've never done anything with a solder iron before, hence the requirement of a detailed plan.

Current electronics used are midrange Marantz PM8003/SA7003/SR6003

The Seas Thor is certainly option 1 at the moment. In an ideal world I would probably looking to clone a PMC OB1

http://www.pmc-speakers.com/product....e=view&pid=174

From a style perspective the PMC enclosure looks like something I would be looking to replicate (similar to Thor). I can't find any specific info on the drivers they use though. That said I doubt I would be able to get a schematic of their crossover anyway... unless anyone has one!

Is there anything else I might consider that is "better" than the Thor?


I should have stated:

"Is there any *one* specific *sound* quality that you would like most to have? i.e. imaging, soundstage, tone (harmonic development), dynamics, etc. - in other words something that give a sense of "wow".

At your budget and flexibility - you can actually achieve a little something special that you might not otherwise get from a fairly standard design.

The Thor isn't terribly "dynamic" (..brits usually term this PRaT) though it certainly isn't bad either, rather this caution is specifically that you might be disappointed in relation to the KEF's you already have on this one aspect. Transparency/Clarity on the other hand (and low freq. heft and clarity), should be substantially improved (..and better than the PMC).

BTW, Wimslow Audio usually has kits with plans, and if I remember correctly several designs with Transmission line enclosures.

If you don't plan on upgrading your other equipment, then I'd probably look for a design that can "squeeze" the most "bang" (or "wow" factor) for your buck. IMO this is the current champ in that category, BUT it doesn't have the low freq. extension (and low freq. clarity) that something like the Thor could provide:

http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp...ROD&ProdID=136

If you are willing to spend a bit more cash, BUT also have the ability to improve the overall sound quality with various other equipment upgrades then I'd go with this design (..based on your aesthetic desire):

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/JA8008_DTQWT.htm

This doesn't have quite the low freq. extension either.. BUT this is a design I don't think you will ever have to upgrade (assuming you build it correctly). Note that of all of Troel's designs (some costing substantially more), this is his current favorite. This will be considerably more "dynamic" than the KEF (and have some additional "wow" factor as well).

IF you want bigger and even better.. well then there is this:

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Galactica.html

IF you want something that is both overall good AND less expensive, and are willing to go with a different aesthetic, then seriously consider this design:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/PMS.htm

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/PMS_Kari.htm



IMO these ALL are currently some of the best designs available, each with their own version of "special" or "wow". You can also directly contact each designer for additional info. and their suggestions for you. All of these designs should overall sound *better* than the PMC, and in many instances a LOT better.
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Old 10th May 2009, 10:55 PM   #12
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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I should also note that as far as extreme value and low cost is concerned:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/BAMTM.html

http://htguide.com/forum/showthread....2&page=1&pp=35

(..though I don't think either are what you are looking for.)

If you are mostly into HT.. then if I were you I'd probably stick with the KEF's.

Alternatively the other HT oriented designs, (or rather designs with center channels and the like), from HTGuide are also good choices. GR Research's kits also have additional loudspeakers that would likely work well with the OB7's.
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Old 11th May 2009, 07:16 PM   #13
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Default Options?

Hello again ScottG

Thanks very much for the additional advice.

The problem I'm having at the moment is that the more I read the more confused I'm getting. This is probably, in no small part ,due to my relative lack of knowledge in this area.

I probably caused some misunderstanding earlier. To be clearer, i'm not really interested in a build for HT. While I will no doubt expand on a stereo build in the future, my primary motivation is to achieve the best stereo/music 'sound' possible for my money AND of course have some fun in doing so.

As to the WOW sound I am after, Im not sure how to explain. It seems to me that good speakers 'SING'. I'm not sure the best way to describe this. Dynamics and Tone if that makes sense? Anything else is a bonus!

Like I was saying, the more I read the more confused I get. The Thor did seem like a fair bet but, on further reading, opinions seem to be mixed. Furthermore, there does not seem to be any consensus as to the best way to build it.
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Old 11th May 2009, 07:39 PM   #14
mattmcl is offline mattmcl  United States
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I think you're running into the subjective side of audio. There really is no "best" anything with audiophile gear. I might prefer bass I can feel over imaging, while your preferences are the opposite. You can build the Fat Thors, and they will thunder, but the short and small will give a smoother response. In a perfect world, you could do a side-by-side comparison of several speakers on your gear, in your room. Not really feasible though.

I just jumped in and said what the heck. I know enough about building speakers to go after imaging and presence over bass- I can add that with a sub, and I knew I wanted transmission line. So I went with the short Thors. See what the negative opinions tell you- most of the complaints on the Thors are about deep bass response, which like I said, I can compensate for.

Not that I'm pushing the Thors at all- just explaining my thought process as a relative newbie as well, and how I made my decision.

Speakers by nature are all about compromise- so what one person is willing to sacrifice may be invaluable to another. I know, not much help, was I?
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Old 11th May 2009, 11:04 PM   #15
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Default Re: Options?

Quote:
Originally posted by feeblechimp
Hello again ScottG

Thanks very much for the additional advice.

The problem I'm having at the moment is that the more I read the more confused I'm getting. This is probably, in no small part ,due to my relative lack of knowledge in this area.

I probably caused some misunderstanding earlier. To be clearer, i'm not really interested in a build for HT. While I will no doubt expand on a stereo build in the future, my primary motivation is to achieve the best stereo/music 'sound' possible for my money AND of course have some fun in doing so.

Is 1k (UK) your absolute threshold?

Do you like any of the designs I posted (aesthetically speaking)? If so, which ones?
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Old 12th May 2009, 08:12 AM   #16
Mach5 is offline Mach5  United States
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why are you going 3 way? For the budget you have you could put a little more money into only two drivers and get a better sound I think
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Old 12th May 2009, 08:15 AM   #17
Mach5 is offline Mach5  United States
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and don't forget to look for plans with a crossover already designed for you
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Old 12th May 2009, 09:08 AM   #18
Piek is offline Piek  Europe
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Hi,

your linked speakers reminded me of this kit by a german diy loudspeaker magazine: http://lautsprechershop.de/hifi/spring.htm
which is in your price range, when you count in cabinet costs.

Regards, Micha
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Old 12th May 2009, 09:26 AM   #19
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IPL Acoustics

There is this company too if you are interested in Transmission lines, they've been around a long time. Not heard any of their designs though.
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Old 12th May 2009, 03:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: Re: Options?

Thanks once again for all the advice


Quote:
Originally posted by ScottG


Is 1k (UK) your absolute threshold?

Do you like any of the designs I posted (aesthetically speaking)? If so, which ones?
ScottG the links and info are extremely helpful.
I could probably stretch to 1.5k uk but purely from a style / aesthetics pont of view I'm leaning more towards a simple, substance over style, tower design. Certainly some of the thor builds I have seen on here look excellent:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...17#post1728917

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...30#post1729130

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...51#post1375951

However, I'm not completeley sold on the Thor design. I gather there are some crossover issues that a few have pointed out?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mach5
why are you going 3 way? For the budget you have you could put a little more money into only two drivers and get a better sound I think
Hello Mach
I'm not entirely convinced that I should be going with a 3 way. I may be just as happy with a 2 way. In fact a 2 way might be better for me, I dont know, how much would I lose in bass?
I don't want to be playing these excessively loud and I would perhaps like something that is relatively easy to drive. I'm also assuming that the crossover would be easier to build which would be another plus. From a 2 way perspective I have seen this on one of the links provided by scottG:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZRT.html

It does'nt have to be a TL box either come to think of it!

From a budget point of view I was consdering the thor because this looked to have some of the better drivers that are available. I'd happily consider increasing my budget to include better drivers if you can suggest any.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mach5
and don't forget to look for plans with a crossover already designed for you
However, as I'm a complete newb when it comes to crossovers the plans would be an absolute must...


If we all had >1 k (uk) to spend on a standard tower design which design would you choose?

As always, sincere thanks for the advice everyone
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