Tower. Three way.. or two way w/sub - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th April 2009, 04:44 PM   #1
Christy is offline Christy  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Default Tower. Three way.. or two way w/sub

First time speaker builder. Been lurking and reading and waiting for something easy, low risk (already well regarded) and inexpensive to test my woodworking and assembly skills.

Just about ready to go ahead and order parts for either the RB-Kit from Madisound or parts for Zaph's ZMV5. I'd like to order a pair of 8" or 10"subwoofers and inexpensive plate amps to build subs right into towers with one of the two mentioned kits installed on top.

I like the simplicity that two ways are capable of acheiving. But I've always wondered if it's possible to compare the assets of a three way design (or even 2.5) with a two way tower with built in subwoofer? What does either do more successfully than the other? Is it possible to generalize?

I'm not really well versed here, but it seems a reasonable question. There are many examples of each out there, and few direct comparisons between the two approaches.

A three way is naturally going to more gradually assign frequency ranges across the drivers, with narrower midrange duty performed by a smaller (more accurate?) driver. The two way with integrated sub asks a lot more of the midrage driver, but its advantage is that the largest driver is free to plumb more depths on its own.

Do I have the general idea straight? If I go with Zaph's design, I'd like to find an 8 or 10 inch driver from madisound (tweeter source) or MCM (woofer source) w/plate amp that would be most ideal from among their offerings to mate with these drivers in the subwoofer section. Any suggestions in keeping with the same goals of price/performance? The Silver Flute 8 or 10 looked ideal, but I'm not good enought yet at browsing the TS specs and spotting a good fit. A google search for forum comments on the SF drivers for sub use suggests that they aren't a good fit.

Thanks so much for any ideas.
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2009, 08:22 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
sdclc126's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Christy - what's your budget - that will narrow things down.
__________________
Soft Dome
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th April 2009, 09:02 PM   #3
BHTX is offline BHTX  United States
diyAudio Member
 
BHTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Just thought I'd add an opinion or two. Some people might disagree, but to each their own..

My observation has always been that better "accuracy" usually results in less maximum output. Anything more than a 1st order slope mangles the step response and doesn't sound right at all. The significance of these problems mainly depends on your sensitivity to them. Commonly used 2nd order slopes are a huge sacrifice, but if you can't live with the limited output and issues likely to result from a 1st order design, then so be it. Steep slopes tend to sound horrible, and so do drivers covering narrow ranges (including subwoofers). Using drivers that are able to cover a vast majority of the entire frequency spectrum, and keeping their filters far apart (but well within reason) is a very good idea. However, directivity and off-axis response come into play here, and all of these things need to be taken into consideration and examined very closely. So, in summary, be careful with the overall design criteria and the drivers used, use the shallowest filters you can get away with and keep them far apart while taking all other issues into consideration. If SPL is of any importance whatsoever while attempting to follow these simple design guidelines, things can get very difficult. And of course, as sdclc126 said, budget dictates everything. Of course, in the end, the less you can spend and still be satisfied with what you've done, the better IMO. And most of all, have fun!

..Just my $0.02.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th April 2009, 01:30 AM   #4
Christy is offline Christy  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Thanks for that! The budget should be determinable. I'm looking at the "recession buster" kit from Madisound, and the "The bottom line is that it's a cheap, flexible and great sounding design" (quoted from Zaph's webpage), ZMV5. That suggests, I think, about no more than 30USD for each subwoofer driver and, chancing upon a good sale, about the same for a 25 to 50 watt plate amplifier.

BHTX,, you're a little ahead of me, I'm afraid. Doubtless good advice, but I need more 'gist' I'm afraid.

SPL means very little to me. I value my eardrums above ALL else. With that in mind, I'd never approach the limits of even the most minimally capable (spl-wise) modern design. That's a plus, I'd hope, for suggesting a driver/system to match my tastes.

What about a subwoofer driver, with these considerations in mind, to go with Zaph's ZMV5 in a single tower?
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th April 2009, 03:02 PM   #5
mattmcl is offline mattmcl  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Erie, CO
I'm not sure a 25-50W amp will give enough power to the woofers. I have a 5.1 home theater setup, the main amp is 100W X 5. I use a 200W plate amp in the sub to drive 2 12" woofers, and the volume knob on the plate amp is about halfway between 0 and 10 to keep up with the rest of the system.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th April 2009, 05:14 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
chris661's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sheffield
Blog Entries: 8
Hmmmm....

a 2.5 way set-up looks interesting

Here's what I'm thinking....

2 of these

http://mcmelectronics.com/product/55-1455

in a cab. One for mid/low, the other as a sub.

I have tried these driver as a sub and they work well, with a LT circuit.

See my thread two 8"s in a box... for details on the circuit etc.

Because it's meant for sub use, the XO between that and the tweeter will need to be quite low (I'd say around 2-3kHz...)

Have fun
__________________
"Throwing parts at a failure is like throwing sponges at a rainstorm." - Enzo
My setup: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...tang-band.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2009, 12:22 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default I would be interested in knowing

What TMTM has been designed to work with a first order crossover? For LEAP chose a LR2 instead of a 1st order XO for my speakers
For I am building some speakers and finding a First order causing issues IM distortin, I would like for some projects examples

3 way is the best choice using the 1/2 1/2 1/2 harmonic rule bet is a pain to make a crossover for since the critical midrange would be a 2nd or double 2nd

12 inch 6 inch 3 inch or smaller

I would go with

10 in 5.25 in 2.5 in or smaller

My plan right now is a TMTM using 5.25
Xt25 tweeter and 3 inch cone tweeter and a sub woofer of 2 8 inch

and if you have the room WMTMW
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Tower Design Need Help bt6297 Multi-Way 3 6th May 2012 03:41 PM
Ess Gas Tower 1.3 Alex helge Multi-Way 18 26th October 2007 02:22 PM
Three-way tower conversion Timn8ter Multi-Way 16 4th May 2005 05:13 AM
Tower Speaker peteboyer Multi-Way 2 10th November 2001 06:03 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:22 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2