Hello all,
I was asking for power amp suggestions over at the Pass Labs forum and I thought I should open another thread here for discussions other than amps. If you have knowledge in small Class A amps driving compression drivers then please post at my amp thread: Choosing Amps for a 5 Way Active Horn System
Let me introduce our (my dad and I) system a bit:
The room is 21' wide x 32' long x 12'6" ceiling. The horns are placed 10' away from the front wall, listening position is another 10' away from the horns which leaves about 12' behind the listening position.
The source is currently PC digital out > Drawmer digital pre > 2x Behringer DCX 2496 (XO and DA duties) > 5x C-Audio 100W pro amps. (We will be building a complete PC XO solution with RME Fireface 800 sound card in the near future)
Drivers...
TAD ET-703 compression driver <12k-20k> (107db 8 ohms)
TAD TD-4002 compression driver on 400hz tractrix <1.9k-12k> (110db 16 ohms)
GOTO 505TT compression driver on GOTO 150hz hypex <250-1.9k> (110db 16 ohms)
TAD TL-1101H cone driver on DIY 1/2 space 53hz hypex with 5" throat <58-250> (around 103db if not more... 16 ohms)
TAD TL-1603 cone driver on DIY tapped horn <20-58> (around 95db... 8 ohms)
I welcome all comments, suggestions, and questions
Thanks
*Photo credit goes to whoever snapped it during his/her visit...
I was asking for power amp suggestions over at the Pass Labs forum and I thought I should open another thread here for discussions other than amps. If you have knowledge in small Class A amps driving compression drivers then please post at my amp thread: Choosing Amps for a 5 Way Active Horn System
Let me introduce our (my dad and I) system a bit:
The room is 21' wide x 32' long x 12'6" ceiling. The horns are placed 10' away from the front wall, listening position is another 10' away from the horns which leaves about 12' behind the listening position.
The source is currently PC digital out > Drawmer digital pre > 2x Behringer DCX 2496 (XO and DA duties) > 5x C-Audio 100W pro amps. (We will be building a complete PC XO solution with RME Fireface 800 sound card in the near future)
Drivers...
TAD ET-703 compression driver <12k-20k> (107db 8 ohms)
TAD TD-4002 compression driver on 400hz tractrix <1.9k-12k> (110db 16 ohms)
GOTO 505TT compression driver on GOTO 150hz hypex <250-1.9k> (110db 16 ohms)
TAD TL-1101H cone driver on DIY 1/2 space 53hz hypex with 5" throat <58-250> (around 103db if not more... 16 ohms)
TAD TL-1603 cone driver on DIY tapped horn <20-58> (around 95db... 8 ohms)
I welcome all comments, suggestions, and questions
Thanks
*Photo credit goes to whoever snapped it during his/her visit...
Attachments
Thanks Gainphile
WALTER BURKHARD asked me about constrution drawings from the midbass horn, I'll be answering here...
I used Hornresp to design my 1/2 space 53hz hypex (m=0.6) with 5" throat, the mouth is about 40" x 64" (102cm x 164cm), and length is 8' 8" (264cm). I can't say that I was super accurate when I made this horn but I did my best with the tools available. Construction drawing would be the exported file from hornresp and the paper template I made (see picture).
WALTER BURKHARD asked me about constrution drawings from the midbass horn, I'll be answering here...
I used Hornresp to design my 1/2 space 53hz hypex (m=0.6) with 5" throat, the mouth is about 40" x 64" (102cm x 164cm), and length is 8' 8" (264cm). I can't say that I was super accurate when I made this horn but I did my best with the tools available. Construction drawing would be the exported file from hornresp and the paper template I made (see picture).
Attachments
Hello CLS,
The driver part of the midbass horn is in the corner, that's the only way I could toe-in my midbass horns. The tapped horns were next to the corners (about a foot away) and did excite room modes, the current position is much better.
The room response with a 16" in bass reflex cab was -10db at 40hz, +11 at 50hz, and -10db at 60hz and that's with EQ! Now that we have horn loaded the lower frequencies we don't notice strong room modes, I'm guessing +/- 7db without any EQ (pure guessing here through listening, haven't got the time to measure hz by hz). We have treated the ceiling with rigid fiberglass panels and will tackle the sidewalls/backwall after my power amp crisis
If by "real bass horns" you mean straight front loaded than this space is not really enough, we wouldn't have any space behind the listening position after the 20ft bass horn.
Regards
The driver part of the midbass horn is in the corner, that's the only way I could toe-in my midbass horns. The tapped horns were next to the corners (about a foot away) and did excite room modes, the current position is much better.
The room response with a 16" in bass reflex cab was -10db at 40hz, +11 at 50hz, and -10db at 60hz
and that's with EQ! Now that we have horn loaded the lower frequencies we don't notice strong room modes, I'm guessing +/- 7db without any EQ (pure guessing here through listening, haven't got the time to measure hz by hz). We have treated the ceiling with rigid fiberglass panels and will tackle the sidewalls/backwall after my power amp crisis If by "real bass horns" you mean straight front loaded than this space is not really enough, we wouldn't have any space behind the listening position after the 20ft bass horn.
Regards
Reasons why i didn't go folded bass horn... umm... was reading about tapped horn at the time and liked the idea... less costly... TAD 1603 modeled nicely... didn't want to take up more space... and time was tight.
You're absolutely correct, it is a half floor and spiral staircase behind the speakers. The lower level is "hollow" but meant to be the "storage room". I'll leave the bass horn idea for later since the room is essentially new (just finished remodeling last summer)
You're absolutely correct, it is a half floor and spiral staircase behind the speakers. The lower level is "hollow" but meant to be the "storage room". I'll leave the bass horn idea for later since the room is essentially new (just finished remodeling last summer)
Thanks you both AdamZuf and Dr.EM
Well we think it sounds good! Tapped horn goes lower than anything we've used before and minimal "boom" due to new placement. Midbass is effortless even comparing to dual 15" systems. Have you tried listening to Tom Danley's July 4th fireworks .wav file? (available at the Danley site for free) So far only horn loaded midbass provides whatever necessary to come close to that kind of energy bursts. Although Goto low-mid (250-1.9k) sounds fine I'd really like to here it on tractrix horns before further commenting. The TAD Be diaphragms on 4002 and ET-703 provide clean and detail sound. My part is putting the system together, but my dad is the one who sits there all day listening, tuning, nudging, delaying, phasing, voluming, crossovering...
Well we think it sounds good! Tapped horn goes lower than anything we've used before and minimal "boom" due to new placement. Midbass is effortless even comparing to dual 15" systems. Have you tried listening to Tom Danley's July 4th fireworks .wav file? (available at the Danley site for free) So far only horn loaded midbass provides whatever necessary to come close to that kind of energy bursts. Although Goto low-mid (250-1.9k) sounds fine I'd really like to here it on tractrix horns before further commenting. The TAD Be diaphragms on 4002 and ET-703 provide clean and detail sound. My part is putting the system together, but my dad is the one who sits there all day listening, tuning, nudging, delaying, phasing, voluming, crossovering...
like the "bands" around the tapped horns reinforcing them.
did you use them w/o ?
look like they would help w/ the cabinet resonance.
i'm building a similar, five-way flh system.
the tapped horn sides resonate more than i'd like; was going to double the walls, but that looks nice!
any reason you're going w/ ss amps instead of tubes?
that's one main difference in our methodologies...
and i'm building round mid-bass horns (too much more work...)
did you use them w/o ?
look like they would help w/ the cabinet resonance.
i'm building a similar, five-way flh system.
the tapped horn sides resonate more than i'd like; was going to double the walls, but that looks nice!
any reason you're going w/ ss amps instead of tubes?
that's one main difference in our methodologies...
and i'm building round mid-bass horns (too much more work...)
LilMik said:it looks awesome...
...and i bet i sounds freaking good... i a concert hall something like this.
sorry, but i can't imagine taht i sounds any good if the listening distance is to short. but on the other hand, who am i
sincerely,
mike
The listening position is 10+ft away from the system, what's your opinion on proper distance?
serenechaos said:
You're right, the "bands" are there to reinforce. Difference of day and night with the exterior braces, I'd also recommend thicker top and bottom plates. If I build the tapped horns again I'd sand fill the thing.
To be honest I'm not a big amp guy and I've never heard tube amps. SS amps seem easier to manage, and the price on "good" tubes is another factor. For now I like First Watt's ideas, perhaps I'll try 10 channel tubes next "round"
Round midbass horns? I admire you, I'm done building the speaker part of my system. Moving on to acoustics treatment, amps, and all in one PC source.
Regards
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