most people on here have probably seen wilson benesch speakers in the carbon fiber. are there any drawbacks to this material? does it perform as well as mdf or ply?
my idea is to rebuild the cabinets of my monitor audio radius with a couple of improvements. as well as try to reduce the size some more, improve sound and look better.
how does one bond carbon-fiber? epoxy? plasti-weld stuff?
my idea is to rebuild the cabinets of my monitor audio radius with a couple of improvements. as well as try to reduce the size some more, improve sound and look better.
how does one bond carbon-fiber? epoxy? plasti-weld stuff?
Carbon fiber has a hugely higher modulus of stiffness than ANY wood , let alone MDF !!
There are 2 basic types of material , wet lay and pre-preg.
Wet lay is just like working with fiberglass except the strand is woven carbon fiber. Pre-preg is the type used by F1 teams and aerospace. The woven CF matt is pre-impregnated with epoxy resin and has to be kept refridgerated to prevent it going off. Then after it is worked into the required mold it has to be cured in an Autoclave , which is a pressurised oven.
Pre-preg gives the ultimate structure and appearance , wet lay requires a great deal of skill to achieve consistant results and a good appearance.
Anything that needs to be bonded to it or CF parts that need to be bonded together can be done with special epoxy adhesives.
To attach anything by screws , threaded bushes would need to be bonded in.
There are 2 basic types of material , wet lay and pre-preg.
Wet lay is just like working with fiberglass except the strand is woven carbon fiber. Pre-preg is the type used by F1 teams and aerospace. The woven CF matt is pre-impregnated with epoxy resin and has to be kept refridgerated to prevent it going off. Then after it is worked into the required mold it has to be cured in an Autoclave , which is a pressurised oven.
Pre-preg gives the ultimate structure and appearance , wet lay requires a great deal of skill to achieve consistant results and a good appearance.
Anything that needs to be bonded to it or CF parts that need to be bonded together can be done with special epoxy adhesives.
To attach anything by screws , threaded bushes would need to be bonded in.
this is what I was getting at.... wet lay is very labor instensive if you want it to look right... keeping the weaving perfect and making sure that the epoy resin is sanded to perfection between each time you apply it...
so if fiberglassing is difficult for you... carbon fiber will be a ton more difficult
so if fiberglassing is difficult for you... carbon fiber will be a ton more difficult
yeah, a few years ago now tho.
so there are no downsides? how do you go about calculating resonant frequencies of a material is you have the specs and cabinet sizes?
i would be buying sheets from dragonplate and using an epoxy to join the sheets maybe using 90 degree edges?
they offer a custom cut service so i would just run a design in CAD and stick.
also, would 2mm carbon fiber be thick enough? or should i use one of their sandwich materials?
also without driver specs how would i reverse engineer the port so that i can increase width to reduce chuffing at higher volumes?
so there are no downsides? how do you go about calculating resonant frequencies of a material is you have the specs and cabinet sizes?
i would be buying sheets from dragonplate and using an epoxy to join the sheets maybe using 90 degree edges?
they offer a custom cut service so i would just run a design in CAD and stick.
also, would 2mm carbon fiber be thick enough? or should i use one of their sandwich materials?
also without driver specs how would i reverse engineer the port so that i can increase width to reduce chuffing at higher volumes?
My experience with CF is thru performance car parts and quality is a massive problem. Lots of small companies making all types of body and engine parts have sprung up all over the globe but VERY few of them can produce good quality in the first place let alone consistantly. The ones that use pre-preg and have all the proper equipment are best but also the most expensive.
Making speaker cabs is something I wouldn't like to try !!
Making speaker cabs is something I wouldn't like to try !!
ok, looking at the pages a little more in depth it seems that this product
http://dragonplate.com/docs/DPSpecPP-Honeycomb.pdf
would work best? maybe just front and rear baffles?
double thickness on the front baffle for countersink of the driver?
how would one bond it to say mdf?
or would acrylic work for side panels?
http://dragonplate.com/docs/DPSpecPP-Honeycomb.pdf
would work best? maybe just front and rear baffles?
double thickness on the front baffle for countersink of the driver?
how would one bond it to say mdf?
or would acrylic work for side panels?
I would go for the thicker section and use it for the whole box. Check out that textured finish though , it may be a bit rough for the external surface. To mount the driver use countersunk alloy washers to prevent the bolt head pulling through. The joins at the corners will need reinforcing internally and externally.
Reading this made me think of Curley Specialised Mouldings, from whom I have bought a few carbon fibre bits from before (all good quality, btw), so I visited their page again and noticed they say they use "cold resin casting", and I quote:
This sounds like it might work pretty well for speakers, since you will get the strength of carbon fibre, but also high density.
Here's a thread from earlier.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131897&highlight=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131897&highlight=
Hello,
Stiffness is interesting if the fiber is mechanically sollicited in tension or eventually in compression, but I guess that the main mode of strain of the fiber in a loudspeaker membrane is flexion. Have you seen or manipulated carbons fibers, you can bend them and make curls so easily with them.
Then I would say that there will be only a very small difference, if any, between the carbon + epoxy membrane and the glass fiber + resin membrane.
Eventually an advantage will be on pressing the membrane during manufacturing. Along this process the fiber can be sollicited in traction, you'll may have more broken glass fibers than carbon fibers.
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
Stiffness is interesting if the fiber is mechanically sollicited in tension or eventually in compression, but I guess that the main mode of strain of the fiber in a loudspeaker membrane is flexion. Have you seen or manipulated carbons fibers, you can bend them and make curls so easily with them.
Then I would say that there will be only a very small difference, if any, between the carbon + epoxy membrane and the glass fiber + resin membrane.
Eventually an advantage will be on pressing the membrane during manufacturing. Along this process the fiber can be sollicited in traction, you'll may have more broken glass fibers than carbon fibers.
Best regards from Paris, France
Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h
thermal runaway said:
The main advantage of CF is stiffness / weight ratio. To gain the most advantage in producing a speaker cabinet CF could be used in an equal weight to MDF . Then the stiffness gain would be massive over the same weight in MDF. There would be practical problems though , 2 of which would be the thickness of the panels and the cost !! I doubt there would be any measurable resonance of the panels though !!
Take a look at the Morel Fat Lady. Note that the manufacturer claims that internal damping is not used, and that the carbon cabinet is allowed to vibrate in a controlled manner to contribute to the sound output.
Are you planning to install your speakers in an aircraft or race car? If not, then a carbon fiber cabinet is difficult to justify. I'm more interested in steel-reinforced concrete as a cabinet material.
Are you planning to install your speakers in an aircraft or race car? If not, then a carbon fiber cabinet is difficult to justify. I'm more interested in steel-reinforced concrete as a cabinet material.
Nice speaker !! I notice they are using the image of a race car in the background to one of the product shots !!
Choice of material is a factor based on many criteria. Carbon is a good choice for many reasons , and so are other materials.
I have Tannoy DMT II System 12 studio monitors. DMT stands for Differential Material Technology and was an effort by Tannoy to exploit alternative use of materials to achieve sonic improvement. For example , the enclosure consisted of a space frame with pressure laminated MDF panels. The laminate is a stiff plastic composite material. DMT applied to all aspects though , including crossover and wiring.
All I can say is it worked !! As soon as I heard them I knew I'd found the speaker I had always wanted !!
Choice of material is a factor based on many criteria. Carbon is a good choice for many reasons , and so are other materials.
I have Tannoy DMT II System 12 studio monitors. DMT stands for Differential Material Technology and was an effort by Tannoy to exploit alternative use of materials to achieve sonic improvement. For example , the enclosure consisted of a space frame with pressure laminated MDF panels. The laminate is a stiff plastic composite material. DMT applied to all aspects though , including crossover and wiring.
All I can say is it worked !! As soon as I heard them I knew I'd found the speaker I had always wanted !!
Carbon fibre is extremely strong, extremely stiff, extremely light and quite expensive and is the material of choice in very high performance yachts. No other product offers that combination of strength, stiffness and low weight and the easiest way to make a yacht go faster is to make it lighter. The cost is $$$$s.
I have sailed on three carbon fibre yachts and the lasting impression is that they are extremely noisy. Every little bit of sea noise or equipment noise gets amplified intrusively, and besides significantly more dBs than other yachts the pitch of the noises seems higher.
It was like sailing inside a drum set.
Cheers
Graeme
I have sailed on three carbon fibre yachts and the lasting impression is that they are extremely noisy. Every little bit of sea noise or equipment noise gets amplified intrusively, and besides significantly more dBs than other yachts the pitch of the noises seems higher.
It was like sailing inside a drum set.
Cheers
Graeme
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