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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 19th April 2009, 05:07 AM   #41
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Hi,

Here are the 2 solutions with Eminence drivers I will probably choose from (more solutions are welcome);

1. Delta 15LFA + Beta 8A + APT150

2. Delta 15LFA + PSD2002 +flare (compression driver, XO at 1.5kHz, 18db)

Both 1,2 cost each about 230 CDN (without the XO)+ shipping per speaker.

I have never heard a compression horn driver, do they sound OK in the mid + high...

PI speaker uses the same driver and XO (almost, they use 12LFA) for the 3PI.

Any thought on 1 vs 2.

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 19th April 2009, 01:10 PM   #42
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Hi,

I found this quote on a PA forum;

''If you want chest thump, you need to make sure that you emphasize the frequencies that cause that effect. Typically, the human chest resonates around 75 Hz to around 90 Hz. So. put that in your crossover and clean out everything "above" and let the mains carry those frequencies.
Thus my suggestion for a "generic" crossover frequency is around 90Hz to perhaps 95 Hz.
Personally, I am using slightly lower crossover specifically due to the operating capabilities of my subwoofers and my mains. My point is that you need to "start" with the 90-95 Hz setting and then do your own adjustments as fits your own equipment until you find the results (chest thump) that you are looking for.

Chest thump is a combination of subwoofer output which includes power and crossover frequency.''


Based on this, should I build the enclosure max flat or should I tune it slightly higher with a 1-1.5 db bump in the 60-100Hz region. Will this make the box boomy..

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 19th April 2009, 01:34 PM   #43
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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First

A 2way is really more simple
But with this it would mean a very big woofer crossed very high, and a small CD/horn crossed low
Its way too complicated to do this way
I would forget that one completely

In the other design it is the Beta-8A itself that could make this possible at all
Its really the most important driver
Chest factor or not
You said it yourself, with a no good midrange the rest becomes pointless

To say that the chest factor thing happens around 70hz is really to oversimplify it
And just to make the box too small to get some "gain" in that region is really not that simple
Besides, its not really free "gain", but unwanted ripple, that could result in boring one note bass
And how much
How much gain do you have from your room
If it was that simple there would be no such thing as equalisers

Fore the Delta15LFA I would choose an optimum closed box at around 180liter
If it shows to be inadequate below 100hz it will be easy to convert it into bassreflex, and 180liter would be optimum fore that one too

And that very low 90hz xo point is really only possible with an active setup
And with a completely different design too
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Old 19th April 2009, 04:14 PM   #44
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There are a few designs here that will fill your requirements.

http://www.pispeakers.com/catalog/de...5d3d8c18d679ab

These designs are offered for free on the Pi Speaker forum just by asking.

Good luck in your search.

NW
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Old 19th April 2009, 04:32 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by e_fortier
Hi Cal,

Thanks for the link. The 12 in woofer has a Qts of 0.75 so better fit for OB this is probably why the review say that the woofer has no bass.
Exactly, this is what I want to do with the Sammi's. OB on the coax and a box for the helper woofer.

Quote:
[i]At an efficiency of 95db i would be better off with my FE206E and these are free since I already have them [/B]
I agree with Tinitus that the Fostex might take a beating even with a high pass. Those are more of a critical listening driver.

Quote:
[i]I have surfed quite a bit today and it's amazing that there is barely NO info about DIY with pro drivers. Maybe I haven't search enough...[/B]
I hear ya. Some of the manufacturers will give you box sizes for the woofers but not always complete systems.

EDIT: Some interesting stuff at the Pi site too, thanks Norris.
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Old 19th April 2009, 10:47 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193
Tri amped. 3 LM3886 chipamps on active filter boards. These boards have level controls, to adjust the power output. The power output to the woofer is ~70watts, the mid is turned down to 50% (that driver is VERY efficient) and the tweeter is at about 70%.
:
Beautiful. Is it typical for a Chipamp to make 70watts into an 8ohm load? I always thought of them as much lower output. What do you have invested $ wise in each 3 amp board?
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Old 19th April 2009, 11:57 PM   #47
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Hi Norris,

I had mentionned PI speaker in my post no.41 but thanks for the recommendation.

Would yo know which PI speaker would suit my needs, I was looking at 3 PI that uses the Eminence Delta 12LFA + compression driver PSD2002, which is almost as my plan no.2 on post 41.

Have you heard any PI speaker.

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 20th April 2009, 12:00 AM   #48
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Hi Tinitus,

A 2way is really more simple
But with this it would mean a very big woofer crossed very high, and a small CD/horn crossed low
Its way too complicated to do this way
I would forget that one completely


This is what PI speaker is doing but with a 12 in woofer. The tweeter is a compression horn driver, I had in mind that these cold be XO low enough to be used with 12 in or 15 in woofer. The fs of PSD2002 is 500Hz therefore 1.5KHz would be OK (correct me if I'm wrong)

I will try to find review (not bias) of the 3PI speaker.

Thanks,
Eric
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Old 20th April 2009, 12:26 AM   #49
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally posted by e_fortier
Hi Tinitus,

A 2way is really more simple
But with this it would mean a very big woofer crossed very high, and a small CD/horn crossed low
Its way too complicated to do this way
I would forget that one completely


This is what PI speaker is doing but with a 12 in woofer.

Thanks,
Eric

I thought that might happen

Only a slight misunderstanding

Note I said " too complicated to do THIS WAY "

Wayne is a pro and measures his speakers, which makes a whole lot of difference
CD/horn needs special xo, but he knows how to

I did think about Pi speakers, but didnt seem possible at first
Though I have also heard before that his plans are free through his forum, but wasnt sure
But sure, if its possible you could order drivers locally

Not sure which horn is used, and you may have to buy it from him, dont know
CD B&C250 is said to be a very good cost benefit

But I would contact Wayne, nice man, Im sure he will help you

Considering your budget maybe look at either Three Pi or Eight Pi, but Im sure Wayne will know
Eight Pi will no doubt take some wood building skills

No doubt, one of those will be the right choise fore you, if possible
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Old 20th April 2009, 01:03 AM   #50
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Hi,

After my last post and before your reply I actually wrote an e-mail to Wayne, he is known to be very good and helpful.

We'll see what he has to propose.

On the 3PI and 4 PI the horn is the PSD2002 this is the reason I had proposed that model why reinvent the wheel when the guy knows what is doing.

You are correct is plans are free, just add the PI logo for publicity and you are all set.

Go on PI web site and click on Products and then scroll down you will see the drivers used.

Regards,
Eric
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