Hi, I am (Norio forum name) from Japan.
I have translated this text from Iizma, Alpair 5 user. He has sent his information and comment of his project to post in English.
Hi, I am Iizma from Japan. I have built a vented box for Alpair 5. I was surprised with its high level detail. Alpair 5 deliver excellent detail in whole range especially in high frequency area. Clear cymbals, high tone of acoustic guitars and dispersion of high note from trumpets, every component sounds beautiful! Detail in mid-low is also excellent. I can not feel any distortion; it's not matter of much or little, I could say actually nothing. Vocals sing so realistically that I can image the shape of the singer's mouth. Separation of vocals is also quite clear even under relatively laud accompaniments.
Not only in high & middle range, but also in low range Alpair 5 delivers high purity as if it has an independent woofer. Due to the response in the range of below 60 Hz, earth shaking bass cannot be expected. I'm writing this article listening to "Move" of Earl Klugh with relatively big volume. All in all, I can feel no distortion down to low-end range. The super detail is impressive. After a period of careful listening, the characteristics of the sound are extremely mellow. For example, when playing YMO, the outline of the sound is so clear that I can even image the waveforms, but it's not sticking.
It sounds really good. I would say it is outstanding among tiny full-range drives in the world, especially in view of sound detail, clarity in high range and delicacy. I really wonder if what speakers could generate such the detail. Furthermore, its low range maintains quite high resolution. The Gray sounds tighter than Gold. On this finally buildup condition, I barely feel a difference in their frequency responses but in the sound character.
The Gold sounds super due to its mellow and warm tone with maintaining fine detail. The Gray is outstanding with its tight and super fine detail. It�fs impossible to judge which is better, because it must totally depends on preference.
I have made measurement for gold and grey and comparison measurement.
Any way, the sound generated from Alpair 5 is really outstanding. I can say, the quality of Alpairs sound reaches the level that can only be achieved after spending many thousands YEN and considerable efforts in the market.
Alpair 5, truly awesome.
Iizma
I have translated this text from Iizma, Alpair 5 user. He has sent his information and comment of his project to post in English.
Hi, I am Iizma from Japan. I have built a vented box for Alpair 5. I was surprised with its high level detail. Alpair 5 deliver excellent detail in whole range especially in high frequency area. Clear cymbals, high tone of acoustic guitars and dispersion of high note from trumpets, every component sounds beautiful! Detail in mid-low is also excellent. I can not feel any distortion; it's not matter of much or little, I could say actually nothing. Vocals sing so realistically that I can image the shape of the singer's mouth. Separation of vocals is also quite clear even under relatively laud accompaniments.
Not only in high & middle range, but also in low range Alpair 5 delivers high purity as if it has an independent woofer. Due to the response in the range of below 60 Hz, earth shaking bass cannot be expected. I'm writing this article listening to "Move" of Earl Klugh with relatively big volume. All in all, I can feel no distortion down to low-end range. The super detail is impressive. After a period of careful listening, the characteristics of the sound are extremely mellow. For example, when playing YMO, the outline of the sound is so clear that I can even image the waveforms, but it's not sticking.
It sounds really good. I would say it is outstanding among tiny full-range drives in the world, especially in view of sound detail, clarity in high range and delicacy. I really wonder if what speakers could generate such the detail. Furthermore, its low range maintains quite high resolution. The Gray sounds tighter than Gold. On this finally buildup condition, I barely feel a difference in their frequency responses but in the sound character.
The Gold sounds super due to its mellow and warm tone with maintaining fine detail. The Gray is outstanding with its tight and super fine detail. It�fs impossible to judge which is better, because it must totally depends on preference.
I have made measurement for gold and grey and comparison measurement.
Any way, the sound generated from Alpair 5 is really outstanding. I can say, the quality of Alpairs sound reaches the level that can only be achieved after spending many thousands YEN and considerable efforts in the market.
Alpair 5, truly awesome.
Iizma
Attachments
To me it was the first comment into Diyaudio forum, but look! I already got a reply from Dave.
Yes, Ijima san said he is going to make a new "Hand made" enclosure for Alpair6, may be reported in near future.
This Url " http://blog.supiken.com/?m=20090304 " is the original site, If you have Japanese- english translator, you may enjoy (feel) the process how he built speakers.
Iijima san sorry I introduced wrong name.
Norio,
Yes, Ijima san said he is going to make a new "Hand made" enclosure for Alpair6, may be reported in near future.
This Url " http://blog.supiken.com/?m=20090304 " is the original site, If you have Japanese- english translator, you may enjoy (feel) the process how he built speakers.
Iijima san sorry I introduced wrong name.
Norio,
I'm not sure if I could be happy with the sound of one 3" driver.
I do like the lift in the highest octave to offset dispersion.
Here's the link to an alpair 5 crossing at 1khz to a sdx 7 (20uF cap on the alpair)
http://markaudio.com/alpair/5/sdx7combination
or these on page 3 of 8 page pdf (crossing at 300hz 6db)
http://www.grantfidelity.com/site/files/VSAC2008_GrantFidelity_Report.pdf
here is the occam website kit (cabinet kit also)
1 assembled but no stain $300, $380 stained
http://www.occamaudio.com/kits.html
They're $60 each u.s. from css
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=ALPAIR5GREY
o.d. is 100mm or 4"
What's sd? 2.73k-mm2 ?
that'd be 27cm2, a little smaller than the one on a w3-871s (32cm2)
Could be the best 3" on the market................
Norman
I do like the lift in the highest octave to offset dispersion.
Here's the link to an alpair 5 crossing at 1khz to a sdx 7 (20uF cap on the alpair)
http://markaudio.com/alpair/5/sdx7combination
or these on page 3 of 8 page pdf (crossing at 300hz 6db)
http://www.grantfidelity.com/site/files/VSAC2008_GrantFidelity_Report.pdf
here is the occam website kit (cabinet kit also)
1 assembled but no stain $300, $380 stained
http://www.occamaudio.com/kits.html
They're $60 each u.s. from css
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=ALPAIR5GREY
o.d. is 100mm or 4"
What's sd? 2.73k-mm2 ?
that'd be 27cm2, a little smaller than the one on a w3-871s (32cm2)
Could be the best 3" on the market................
Norman
Dave san,
This translation is not by me, but by ..........Do not surprise!
The guy translated is Matsumoto san, use to be a Honda F1 engine engineer.
This is his English site he recently open,
http://lean-audio.blogspot.com/
Please enjoy Japanese audiofiles world.
Norio
This translation is not by me, but by ..........Do not surprise!
The guy translated is Matsumoto san, use to be a Honda F1 engine engineer.
This is his English site he recently open,
http://lean-audio.blogspot.com/
Please enjoy Japanese audiofiles world.
Norio
I'm curious on the audience a3 driver, 6mm xmax, 12pp.
But it is 32cm2 (same as a w3-871s), I think the frame is 3"
this discourages me (dealer of the a3 driver).....
"I wasn't pleased with my first cabinet and the Sonic Barrier was way too much dampening for these drivers. It took away a lot of mids and bass. After a couple of cabinet modifications, I decided to 86 them and start over."
http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...udiences-new-true-full-range-loudspeaker.html
perhaps no baffle step and lack of bass support is his problem.
those 4 drivers in that box would have a midrange suckout and no bass............. horrible.
I think I'd want the grey cones (supposed to be more detailed).
I'm thinking there may be a huge future for the alpair line.
Jim Griffin on alpair 10
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1728983#post1728983
"Well how does the Alpair 10 compare to the Jordan JX92S you may ask?...................The larger Xmax of the A10 yields a little lower bass and higher overall SPL versus the JX92S...........They apparently need less baffle step compensation. Bottom line is that given their relatively pricing, I would say that the A10 is an excellent value compared to the JX92S. The Alpairs sound is comparable enough to the Jordan so that most users will be able to achieve that single driver magic at a lower cost. ........So far I have only listened to the MLTLs during their break-in. I have them beside my 'Jordan JX92S with a Ribbon MLTL' so I have a reference for what I'm hearing."
alpair 10 in usa dollar = $129
Norman
But it is 32cm2 (same as a w3-871s), I think the frame is 3"
this discourages me (dealer of the a3 driver).....
"I wasn't pleased with my first cabinet and the Sonic Barrier was way too much dampening for these drivers. It took away a lot of mids and bass. After a couple of cabinet modifications, I decided to 86 them and start over."
http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...udiences-new-true-full-range-loudspeaker.html
perhaps no baffle step and lack of bass support is his problem.
those 4 drivers in that box would have a midrange suckout and no bass............. horrible.
I think I'd want the grey cones (supposed to be more detailed).
I'm thinking there may be a huge future for the alpair line.
Jim Griffin on alpair 10
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1728983#post1728983
"Well how does the Alpair 10 compare to the Jordan JX92S you may ask?...................The larger Xmax of the A10 yields a little lower bass and higher overall SPL versus the JX92S...........They apparently need less baffle step compensation. Bottom line is that given their relatively pricing, I would say that the A10 is an excellent value compared to the JX92S. The Alpairs sound is comparable enough to the Jordan so that most users will be able to achieve that single driver magic at a lower cost. ........So far I have only listened to the MLTLs during their break-in. I have them beside my 'Jordan JX92S with a Ribbon MLTL' so I have a reference for what I'm hearing."
alpair 10 in usa dollar = $129
Norman
Hello, I�fm Matsumoto,
Thank you Norio-san for introducing my Blog site and me.
This comment is basically written as a response to Norman bates-san�f s comment (Post#6); �gI'm not sure if I could be happy with the sound of one 3" driver�h.
I have the similar feeling with Norman-san, especially regarding Alpair 5 (relatively high f0=136Hz). According to announcements from Mark Audio in its Internet site; �gEasy to partner with Subs and larger driver, also good for single mini audio uses�h, �gThe total Q has also been raised to deliver a sharper LF fall-off for easier integration for those builders using sub-woofers.�h;, thus Alpair 5 seems to be designed mainly as a super wide range tweeter.
Alpair 6 (f0=74Hz) could be more suitable for compact single full-range applications, whose diameter is only 1 cm larger than Alpair 5.
However, many Japanese builders love Alpair 5 so much. I assume most of them are using A5 as a full-range driver and solely love mid-high tones from it. Why?
Generally, Japanese have a tendency to prefer or accept more high frequency components comparing to European including North American. This clear tendency was found through studies in automobile industry area, which were performed by AVL List GmbH (Austria), I was also involved indirectly, to analyze preferences of car users regarding car interior sounds. A large number of listening tests were performed in Europe (mainly in German area), USA and Japan for the studies.
<references>
Franz K. Brandl, Werner Biermayer , A new tool for the onboard objective assessment of vehicle interior
noise quality, Proceedings of the 1999 SAE Noise and Vibration Conference, SAE 1999-01-1695
W. Biermayer, S. Thomann, and F. Brandl, A Software Tool for Noise Quality and Brand Sound
Development, Proceedings of the 2001 SAE Noise and Vibration Conference, SAE 2001-01-1573
This tendency might be able to attribute to a difference in traditional or racial living environment, i.e. people living in houses made of wood and paper (anechoic) versus people living in houses made of stones (echoic). The influence also can be seen in their traditional music structures. For example, I cannot accept Japanese traditional Noh-drama to be performed in normal concert hall that are basically designed for European based music. They are too echoic for Japanese traditional instruments especially for small flutes. "Noh" should be originally performed in open spaces highly integrated in nature circumstances.
On the other hand, European-based music, regardless of classical, Jazz or rock, is basically buit up on bass parts. I believe a certain level of bass performance (hopefully down to 30Hz flat) must be necessary for audio systems to satisfactory reproduce the fundamental structure of such the music, among them classical symphonies. Therefore I personally would never use Alpair 5 alone, but I�fm going to integrate the drivers to my desktop audio system with a compact subwoofer.
Finally I would like to add a comment about the Alpair 5 enclosures introduced above by Norio-san(Post#1) and designed/built by supiken-san(Iizima-san,Post#2). supiken-san is a professional speaker builder who is producing several full-range models. The enclosures designed by him are something special. Each model is very carefully optimized for specific driver unit by tuning the special inner structure. His speakers can be characterized by their flat response down to incredibly low-end. His Alpair-5 model actually delivers flat down to exactly 50 Hz that might be enough for pops or rocks. Unfortunately the inner structure is not disclosed (maybe a double bass-reflex type?).
Matsumoto
Thank you Norio-san for introducing my Blog site and me.
This comment is basically written as a response to Norman bates-san�f s comment (Post#6); �gI'm not sure if I could be happy with the sound of one 3" driver�h.
I have the similar feeling with Norman-san, especially regarding Alpair 5 (relatively high f0=136Hz). According to announcements from Mark Audio in its Internet site; �gEasy to partner with Subs and larger driver, also good for single mini audio uses�h, �gThe total Q has also been raised to deliver a sharper LF fall-off for easier integration for those builders using sub-woofers.�h;, thus Alpair 5 seems to be designed mainly as a super wide range tweeter.
Alpair 6 (f0=74Hz) could be more suitable for compact single full-range applications, whose diameter is only 1 cm larger than Alpair 5.
However, many Japanese builders love Alpair 5 so much. I assume most of them are using A5 as a full-range driver and solely love mid-high tones from it. Why?
Generally, Japanese have a tendency to prefer or accept more high frequency components comparing to European including North American. This clear tendency was found through studies in automobile industry area, which were performed by AVL List GmbH (Austria), I was also involved indirectly, to analyze preferences of car users regarding car interior sounds. A large number of listening tests were performed in Europe (mainly in German area), USA and Japan for the studies.
<references>
Franz K. Brandl, Werner Biermayer , A new tool for the onboard objective assessment of vehicle interior
noise quality, Proceedings of the 1999 SAE Noise and Vibration Conference, SAE 1999-01-1695
W. Biermayer, S. Thomann, and F. Brandl, A Software Tool for Noise Quality and Brand Sound
Development, Proceedings of the 2001 SAE Noise and Vibration Conference, SAE 2001-01-1573
This tendency might be able to attribute to a difference in traditional or racial living environment, i.e. people living in houses made of wood and paper (anechoic) versus people living in houses made of stones (echoic). The influence also can be seen in their traditional music structures. For example, I cannot accept Japanese traditional Noh-drama to be performed in normal concert hall that are basically designed for European based music. They are too echoic for Japanese traditional instruments especially for small flutes. "Noh" should be originally performed in open spaces highly integrated in nature circumstances.
On the other hand, European-based music, regardless of classical, Jazz or rock, is basically buit up on bass parts. I believe a certain level of bass performance (hopefully down to 30Hz flat) must be necessary for audio systems to satisfactory reproduce the fundamental structure of such the music, among them classical symphonies. Therefore I personally would never use Alpair 5 alone, but I�fm going to integrate the drivers to my desktop audio system with a compact subwoofer.
Finally I would like to add a comment about the Alpair 5 enclosures introduced above by Norio-san(Post#1) and designed/built by supiken-san(Iizima-san,Post#2). supiken-san is a professional speaker builder who is producing several full-range models. The enclosures designed by him are something special. Each model is very carefully optimized for specific driver unit by tuning the special inner structure. His speakers can be characterized by their flat response down to incredibly low-end. His Alpair-5 model actually delivers flat down to exactly 50 Hz that might be enough for pops or rocks. Unfortunately the inner structure is not disclosed (maybe a double bass-reflex type?).
Matsumoto
Lots of great responses and feedback on the Alpair 5.
So, basically the A5 can be run full range, albeit with loudness constraints. Or it can be used as a tweeter in a 2-way (w/CSS SDX7, as recommended by Alpair).
Questions:
Mr. Iijima san, how did you come up with the cabinet design for the A5? Also, did you use any compensation circuit? And will you show your build plans?
Thanks.
So, basically the A5 can be run full range, albeit with loudness constraints. Or it can be used as a tweeter in a 2-way (w/CSS SDX7, as recommended by Alpair).
Questions:
Mr. Iijima san, how did you come up with the cabinet design for the A5? Also, did you use any compensation circuit? And will you show your build plans?
Thanks.
I enjoyed a moment of pleasure today with an opportunity to listen to Iijima San's work.
A pair of his cabinets named "HDB" arrived in Hong Kong. I was kindly invited to join listeners, Norio, Megumi and Katsumasa for a review of Iijima's work.
We cut away the packing to find two beautifully made cabinets. I installed the drivers (cabs were pre-wired and pre-drilled, nicely done) so it didn't take long to set them up with the Alpair 5 gold drivers.
The rest of the session was a treat. We play a variety of music, from jazz, classical and female vocal using a Sansui and later a 5 watt amp from A. Y. Denshi. The 5 watt added a little extra sweetness. Iijima has done a great job. I've never heard my Alpair 5's go so low. The detail in the bass was wonderful, balance throughout the range was superbly maintained. Iijima has clearly worked many hours fine tuning the design.
Well done Iijima san!
Cheers,
Mark.
A pair of his cabinets named "HDB" arrived in Hong Kong. I was kindly invited to join listeners, Norio, Megumi and Katsumasa for a review of Iijima's work.
We cut away the packing to find two beautifully made cabinets. I installed the drivers (cabs were pre-wired and pre-drilled, nicely done) so it didn't take long to set them up with the Alpair 5 gold drivers.
The rest of the session was a treat. We play a variety of music, from jazz, classical and female vocal using a Sansui and later a 5 watt amp from A. Y. Denshi. The 5 watt added a little extra sweetness. Iijima has done a great job. I've never heard my Alpair 5's go so low. The detail in the bass was wonderful, balance throughout the range was superbly maintained. Iijima has clearly worked many hours fine tuning the design.
Well done Iijima san!
Cheers,
Mark.
Attachments
This isn't my apartment (wish it was).
I was invited to listen by DIYer's here in Hong Kong. I was heartened by this invitation and glad to say "thanks" to Iijima for going to the trouble of offering his work to others for evaluation. This is good DIY community spirit and worth encouraging.
Not sure why you think the forum should only about publishing plans. All sorts of ideas, opinions, advice and news is on the forum. It helps to make the forum more interesting.
It's up to Iijima if he wants to fully publish plans of his design.
Hoping to see yours soon. How are the designs for Alpair 6 and CHR70 coming along?
I was invited to listen by DIYer's here in Hong Kong. I was heartened by this invitation and glad to say "thanks" to Iijima for going to the trouble of offering his work to others for evaluation. This is good DIY community spirit and worth encouraging.
Not sure why you think the forum should only about publishing plans. All sorts of ideas, opinions, advice and news is on the forum. It helps to make the forum more interesting.
It's up to Iijima if he wants to fully publish plans of his design.
Hoping to see yours soon. How are the designs for Alpair 6 and CHR70 coming along?
"..... unless you are prepared to publish details of the design."
I didn't mean drawings, but e.g. whether it is BR, or double BR, or .... what volume, what filter, etc. so that people can add to that, in the spirit of DIY.
> How are the designs for Alpair 6 and CHR70 coming along?
I wasn't going to post as yet.
Need a couple more weeks, but this is the first one (still need sanding down and painting).
Patrick
I didn't mean drawings, but e.g. whether it is BR, or double BR, or .... what volume, what filter, etc. so that people can add to that, in the spirit of DIY.
> How are the designs for Alpair 6 and CHR70 coming along?
I wasn't going to post as yet.
Need a couple more weeks, but this is the first one (still need sanding down and painting).
Patrick
Attachments
Hi Patrick,
These cabs were direct wired as far as I could tell with no compensation.
I can't speak for Iijima san personally, its important to respect Iijima's work. He wanted to express his opinions more on the Alpair 5 rather than his own cabinet design. He's been doing much experimenting. There's a cultural difference in expressing information as opinion and also language barrier to think about.
Apologies on my part for raising expectations. It was so nice to have some time out and be with other keen audio folks, I was happy to pass on the experience as part of the interest in full-range.
I try help by encouraging the exchange on small speaker system development generally so have some sympathy with your thinking. I heard recently from a guy who thinks full range is dying. Let's all prove him wrong by encouraging as much exchange and debate as possible.
There will be more plans and ideas coming from various sources and places soon so no worries.
These cabs were direct wired as far as I could tell with no compensation.
I can't speak for Iijima san personally, its important to respect Iijima's work. He wanted to express his opinions more on the Alpair 5 rather than his own cabinet design. He's been doing much experimenting. There's a cultural difference in expressing information as opinion and also language barrier to think about.
Apologies on my part for raising expectations. It was so nice to have some time out and be with other keen audio folks, I was happy to pass on the experience as part of the interest in full-range.
I try help by encouraging the exchange on small speaker system development generally so have some sympathy with your thinking. I heard recently from a guy who thinks full range is dying. Let's all prove him wrong by encouraging as much exchange and debate as possible.
There will be more plans and ideas coming from various sources and places soon so no worries.
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