What constitutes "Acceptable " performance - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd February 2009, 03:40 PM   #11
diyAudio Member
 
THUMP LUMP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Perfection, for me, would be to listen to the master recordings through the same monitors and other equipment the music was mastered on. This would be exactly how it was intended to sound. Good or bad, this is where it begins for the end listener. Everything else is compromise from there. This is also the reason I prefer to make and record my own music. I can get the sound exactly where I want it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 03:59 PM   #12
TerryO is offline TerryO  United States
diyAudio Member
 
TerryO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle,Wash.
Acceptable is certainly a vague, yet subjectively loaded word that can certainly be used in a variety of seemly contradictory contextual patterns.

In the realm of loudspeakers, my use of the word acceptable starts with the realistic protrayal of the human voice and unamplified acoustic instruments. If these are not produced in a manner that accurately resembles, what we would accept as a very close reproduction of the original, then a speaker is (to me) unacceptable.

"The music resides in the midrange, all the rest is mere adornment." [Terry Olson, ca. 1980]

So if you get the vocals and acoustic instruments "spot-on" the rest is, by comparison, fairly easy.

Best Regards,
TerryO
__________________
"If you have to ask why, then you're probably on the right track."
quote from Terry Olson's DIYaudio Forum application
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 04:29 PM   #13
HK26147 is offline HK26147  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
The standard deviation (SD ) from flat response over the frequency range of 170Hz to 17Hz appears to be a start...
See SB ( AudioXpress Sept 2008 p 17 )
Testing Loudspeakers: Which Measurements Matter, Part 1 by Joseph D'Appolito
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 08:58 PM   #14
diyAudio Member
 
5th element's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England
Acceptable is something you are happy with, but by definition is again something that could be better. Which is where the problem lies. Are we happy with acceptable? Quite clearly not, otherwise we wouldn't be in this hobby to start with.

But in my opinion, there's a lot of you never realise how much you miss something till its gone, in hifi.

That extra level of transparency, that extra half octave of bass or maybe the ability to reproduce dynamics, anything you care to mention. If you've never experienced it, you are far more likely to be happy with your current system.

Whenever I make an upgrade, that offers a true improvement, the best moments are the first few times I listen to it, as its fresh. Give it a few months and I'm accustomed to the sound, it's no longer "exciting" it's just what I expect to be there, its common place. Sure, it sounds good, but there are very few moments of amazement, like there were when I first started listening to it.

This acclimatisation has led me over the years, to seek out new upgrades to provide that thrill of the "first" listen again. The closer the system gets to being "perfect", the less this desire is there, as there are fewer things that annoy me about the system.

In fact the best tonic for this is actually listening to a system that's
worse then yours rather then better, as it makes you appreciate your own system once again.

The mentality you take towards these upgrades is important however. Each and every one I've made, has been founded in science, it will sound better because of XYZ reason. Not, it will sound better because its got to, simply because it costs 10x the amount . There have been defects and areas where there has been clear room for improvement. Every system worked, it was "acceptable", but there has always been a better way to do X, or change this as its better then Z.

If there are areas where there is room for improvement, you're going to want to make that improvement. You know it should sound better and that's what drives you to want to try it out.

For me it isn't just a case of, here we go another set of woofers, its the fun and learning I have/do along the way too. I get huge pleasure from working on another project, seeing the completion. There will always be another pair of something, simply because there is a drive to try something different, to experiment with something I've never tried before.

So back to the original question of

Quote:
I thought I'd throw this question into the ring because my partner keeps asking why I need to buy more woofers "again"
the answer is fairly simple, it brings you pleasure.

Interestingly woofers and tweeters last for years too and can be used in many different projects in many different ways. It's not as if you're throwing money down the drain on cigarettes or booze, or computers parts that will be outdated in 6 months time.
__________________
What the hell are you screamin' for? Every five minutes there's a bomb or somethin'! I'm leavin! bzzzz!
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 09:22 PM   #15
diyAudio Member
 
5th element's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: England
Quote:
Is the next set of woofers always going to be dearer better than the last set??
The next set of anything is going to be purchased when the problem or thing I want to upgrade has been identified(if we're talking about upgrading one system). And also that the "problem" will be fixed or should be addressed with the upgrade. None of this - I don't like the way the XYZ sounds so im just going to throw money at it and hope it fixes itself - I'd have a hard time justifying the spending of money in this case. If you have to convince yourself that this is the right thing to do, then I'd say, well it really isn't. If you cannot give your significant other the technical reasons as to why this is an improvement, then you shouldn't be buying that next pair of woofers. Unless of course you are just wanting to experiment.

I want to try the Vifa XT19/25 at some point, why? They look snazzy are somewhat different to normal domes and I would like to work with them, no other reason

Quote:
Do you shop knowing in advance that you need sub-woofers??
I shop in advance, knowing that this upgrade will only address that problem, as you cant fix a leaky pipe with a lightbulb, but you can light the room with the bulb so you can see the leak.
__________________
What the hell are you screamin' for? Every five minutes there's a bomb or somethin'! I'm leavin! bzzzz!
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 09:23 PM   #16
diyAudio Member
 
Moondog55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norlane; Geelong: Victoria: Australia
Great answer 5th, and yes! you are right I build for the sheer pleasure of the doing.

But it was a serious question, and there have been some serious answers on the subjective; perhaps; to paraphrase Robert Louis Stevenson, it is the journey itself which is important
__________________
QUOTE" The more I know, the more I know, I know (insert maniacal laugh >here<) NOTHING"
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 09:24 PM   #17
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
hi Moondog
I think that William Cowan defines it quite well on his website
http://www.cowanaudio.com/ steps to great sound
I suggest this as his quest for bass is certainly pushing the boundaries, in a good way
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 09:34 PM   #18
diyAudio Member
 
Moondog55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norlane; Geelong: Victoria: Australia
Acceptable also is very dependent ( for me ) on the setting, if I am just filling in the hole and have only half my mind on the music as I work then having that last half octave of bass is less important.
Or late at nite , lying in bed and cuddling my partner too.

Parties for example, it just needs to be loud and the bass beat for dancing takes precedent, dinner music should not dominate.
__________________
QUOTE" The more I know, the more I know, I know (insert maniacal laugh >here<) NOTHING"
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 09:40 PM   #19
diyAudio Member
 
Brett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Quote:
Originally posted by Antripodean
hi Moondog
I think that William Cowan defines it quite well on his website
http://www.cowanaudio.com/ steps to great sound
I suggest this as his quest for bass is certainly pushing the boundaries, in a good way
I got to hear his system a few weeks ago, and it's definitely the best system I've heard. It did everything as well as I remember* my big horns did (old dismantled system) but the integration and coherence was much, much better. Considering that the entire system cost less than a set of 5" 2 ways I know of locally, it's also surprisingly good value. William is a good engineer and has approached it methodically and it shows. Plus it is the most discrete system I think I've ever seen.

I'd planned to build my Unity's and add some TH subs, but I've just bought a modest apartment and I think I might be able to add a bit of EQ to make it 'enough' at LF in room. they'll probably end up looking similar to William's original enclosures as I can't fit the big ones I planned in.

* Beranek's law is certainly at play here.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd February 2009, 10:17 PM   #20
diyAudio Member
 
nigelwright7557's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Carlisle, England
Instead of keeping upgrading I just buy a decent system to start with. It saves a lot of money and wife grief !
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What makes an amplifier "bright", "warm", or "neutral"? JohnS Solid State 51 13th December 2009 06:42 PM
Charcoal "Supreem" hi-density foam "enclosure" IG81 Multi-Way 0 23rd April 2009 01:34 PM
"Void free" or "no core gaps" plywood rick57 Multi-Way 6 14th March 2007 01:09 PM
Some final pics of "Stacks" revisited and "Askew" with stand Andy G Multi-Way 2 3rd February 2005 06:07 AM
Anyone used Scan-Speak's "Flow Resistors" or "Aperiodic Vents"? Ignite Multi-Way 3 18th November 2001 08:42 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:21 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2