12 " for lower midrange - upper bass - diyAudio
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Old 5th February 2009, 10:32 PM   #1
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Default 12 " for lower midrange - upper bass

Friends;

I am searching for a suitable 12 " driver to cover lower midrange and upper bass (freq 300 - 80 Hz).

It has to fitt in a closed / aperiodic enclosure of 30-40 liters, but I will have access to almost unlimited EQ-possibilities through Audiolense-software.

I want lots of dynamics (and "slam") and believe the element should at least have sensibility = 90 dB.

My current choise is Beyma 12P1000ND, but I feel I should investigate a little more before conclusion is made.

Are there other interesting alternatives? e.g. JBL, 18sounds, Lambada etc?

Currently price is not an issue, but will of course be considered in the final round.

Best regards

Gisle
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Old 5th February 2009, 10:50 PM   #2
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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The 12P100ND you suggest doesnt seem like it does what you expect

The 12LW30/N seems like it hits your demands spot on...and looks smoother too

Mind you, its not that I recommend it, I cant as I dont know it

Why not use a 15"

Like this nice PrecisionDevices...fits your demands perfectly

http://www.precisiondevices.co.uk/showdetails.asp?id=79
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Old 6th February 2009, 12:12 AM   #3
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The PD 15 " looked very nice!

Q=0,707 gives a box of apx 43 liters

I am planning to crossover to an Audiotechnology 18 cm element at 200-300 Hz; will the PD 15" mate ok motorvise? (i.e. are the "motor" strong enough to start/stop the element in the region where the 18 cm is overlapping/crossection?)

(Maybe steep xrossover (48 dB or more per octave) will "cure" such a problem?)
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Old 6th February 2009, 12:42 AM   #4
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally posted by Audiodidakt
The PD 15 " looked very nice!

Q=0,707 gives a box of apx 43 liters

are the "motor" strong enough to start/stop the element in the region where the 18 cm is overlapping/crossection?)

(Maybe steep xrossover (48 dB or more per octave) will "cure" such a problem?)

You could probably cross it at 500hz, if thats what you wanted
There should be no need fore such step filters
But maybe include a notch, and 12db may be sufficient
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Old 6th February 2009, 02:26 AM   #5
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Excellent!

My worries above rely on what I have previously read about the BW Nautilus 801, where the 15" XO to a 6" at about 300.

All reviewers state that the BW 15" must be driven by a large amp to mate correctly with the 6", but I don't know the start/stop-factor of the BW 15 " element vs the PD 15" mentioned above.
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Old 6th February 2009, 05:57 AM   #6
Khron is offline Khron  Romania
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You could take a peek at some P-Audio drivers. For instance, the AM-12LF can do an ~80Hz f3 in a 34litre box (Q 0.707), with over 93dB/1W. Or the E12-250N: f3 a bit below 80Hz in a 40litre box (Q 0.8), around 95dB/1W.

They're both PA drivers, but i'm not sure if that's an impediment. The up-side is that they're not costly at all
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Old 6th February 2009, 09:27 AM   #7
EspenE is offline EspenE  Norway
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In my experience, JBL 12-inch elements is hard to beat in your intended application: 80-300 Hz in a (relatively) small closed box. Check out the 2206H at http://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/2206.pdf or the 2204H at http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2204h.pdf

The former is still in production, the latter is sometimes available on eBay.

And BTW: Smaller drivers (6") do not "stop/start" faster than larger drivers (12", 15"). That is a myth. Read white paper from Dan Wiggins of Adire Audio at http://www.diycable.com/main/pdf/WooferSpeed.pdf

Espen
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Old 7th February 2009, 06:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: 12 " for lower midrange - upper bass

Quote:
Originally posted by Audiodidakt
My current choise is Beyma 12P1000ND, but I feel I should investigate a little more before conclusion is made.

Are there other interesting alternatives? e.g. JBL, 18sounds, Lambada etc?

The TD12S will likely be your best option. It has clean response out to 2KHz, extremely low inductance, extremely low distortion, high Xmax, high efficiency, and very good heat dissipation.

http://www.aespeakers.com/drivers.php?driver_id=11


Take a look at the Lambda motor design here. http://www.aespeakers.com/Lambda001-1.php It explains what is done in the motor and why it is done. Then you can look at this vs any of the other designs to see what they do or don't do.

John
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Old 10th May 2009, 10:57 AM   #9
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Hi Gisle,

Original question by private email but my reply kept bouncing back from your email so please find below my thoughts.

"I am looking for a speaker covering the frequence-area from around 1000 Hz to 150 Hz. (Cross upwards with the Beyma TL150 and downwards to JBL 2226H - all active).

Do you believe the Volt-driver is one of the best I can choose? (Or would you recommend another driver?)

And if so, would a 25 liter closed encloser suffice?

Best regards

Gisle Danielssen
Norway"
Hi Gisle,

Hi Gisle,

The Volt BM25.1 and the Volt BM2500.4 are the two best drivers I have used in the 100Hz to 2Khz range, they really are beautiful sounding and beautifully made pro drivers.
The differences between them are basically the 251.4 has a lower Mms (28g) and corresponding higher(97 dB) efficiency. It sacrifices power handling and will have more thermal compression due to its 50mm voice coil. The BM2500.4 has a 75mm voice coil and a 48g Mms, but a higher BL helps keep the efficiency up to 92 dB. The lower Fs 32Hz 2500.4 gives a richer lower mid as well as a lower -3 dB point in the bass.
As you are using a separate bass driver you can choose between the two drivers performance in the 150Hz to 2Khz band. With the TPL and a good active crossover(Linear phase filters with 48 to 60 dB slopes) I suggest you try a crossover of about 1,800Hz and then work your way down in 100Hz steps. Anything below 1200Hz will start to stress the TPL, it sounds great with a DEQX crossover 60dB Linear Phase slopes, and the Volt 2500.4 in my open baffle VPL (see photos of the my "Finale" speakers on the forum which show the Volt 2500.4 in VPL open baffle) and a Beyma 15 inch or Precision Devices 18inch bass drivers.
I strongly recommend you run the Volt drivers in an open baffle VPL cabinet if (like me) you use them above 150Hz. They will amaze you with their speed and power yet are sweet and rich at the same time. I have never done a controlled A/B B/A (!) test to compare the Volts as I have used them both in different designs. They are both awesome so good luck and enjoy!

Cheers

Derek.
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Old 10th May 2009, 08:01 PM   #10
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Thanks for answering Derek!


Due to limitations regarding my listening room, open baffle is sadly no alternativ: the speakers have to be positioned pretty close to the back wall.

But maybe the Volt can be used in a closed / aperiodic - enclosure of say 25 liters?

How high up can a 10" normally be brought up in frequence and still maintain resonable horisontal disperision? (I have maybe changed tweeter preference from Beyma to Raal due to vertial disperison-limitations...)

Best regards Gisle
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