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-   -   "Proac 2.5 clone" or "Elsinore project" (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/136960-proac-2-5-clone-elsinore-project.html)

Joel Wesseling 20th January 2009 06:57 PM

"Proac 2.5 clone" or "Elsinore project"
 
I have some valuable experience for members still looking at cloning the Proac Response 2.5 or anyone with the real 2.5.

I cloned the 2.5 years ago. My friend has a set of the commercial pair and they sound fundamentally the same.

I wanted something better and owned big name speakers that did'nt work out and then spent a few years researching,searching and travelling to hear many systems.

In my search I did find some guys were producing some nice speakers..

I then discovered Joe rasmussen's website at
http://www.customanalogue.com
On his site he offers "The Elsinore Loudspeaker Project"

Did my months of examining this project throught his webpage
and here at diyaudio.com
The thread is called "Elsinore Project" and you can read all about it here on this Forum

I'll make a long story short: I've been listening to The Elsinore for close to a month now and they do "EVERTHING" better than the Proac 2.5..
EVERTHING YOU MAY ASK
RESPONSE: "YES EVERYTHING"

It might sound insulting if I describe how much better they are..
If you want to know more please ask..

Joel

critofur 19th March 2011 06:15 AM

Thank you so much for making a comparison, we don't see that so often, though you'd think you would...

Also, would be happy for you to try to describe in more detail what you like about the sound of them.

So, one guy was not happy with the Peerless HDS Nomex woofers as mids and replaced them with Seas Nextel woofers, said he's much happier - I wonder if it's because he did not use Joe's design fully (I believe he used an active xover from the start).

He also did not like the HDS tweeter, tried several, then finally settled on the RS28F which he loves.

I've heard a lot of strong praise for the RS28F from people comparing it to other tweeters (including Scan Speaks).

I have 10 of the woofers used in the Elsinore. Full set of tools in the garage - just can't afford/justify to myself purchasing the Peerless (Now Scan Speak) HDS Tweeters.

I keep thinking I'll "clone" the Elsinores - different waveguide, different tweeter...

I also keep wondering about using 5.25" mids on the top instead of the 6.5"... I suppose I should copy the Elsinores, go ahead and buy the HDS tweeters, THEN try customizing w/RS28F tweeter, compare the XT25 (I've got dozens of XT25 tweeters, and I keep hearing how good they should be in a waveguide).

Luke 19th March 2011 06:35 AM

Im tempted, but having built kits Im not overly happy with, its alot to splash out. If anyone in NZ had a pair I could listen too Id probably build them if I liked them, untill then I think Ill wait. I also like the look of the ZA5.5tt Zaph|Audio - ZA5 Speaker Designs with ZA14W08 woofer and Vifa DQ25SC16-04 tweeter

Joel Wesseling 20th March 2011 03:25 AM

critofur, Luke,
I guess you have to hear them to see if there for you but they are likely my last stop for full range speakers in a main listening room. This is after owning B&W Nautilus 801 and listening to many others including Top Wilsons.

I cant see changing any of the drivers because I believe this would upset the textural balance across the range. This is exactly what I dont like in other speakers that have multiple drivers of different types.

I dont believe (or maybe havent experienced) modifying a profetional design into something better. This includes some changes for proac 2.5 clone that for me runied the essence of the original speaker which the exact clone retains.

I can say that other designs that I've heard do certain things better than Elsinore but it didn't matter because the overall balance was off and/or they sounded sterile.


Elsinore - Textural Balance is Excellent, drivers sound integrated and never appear that they are not, Bass is in proportion with the rest with no upper bass peak so every recording has its own bass quantity, Always a sense of life, Go loud without compression, play lower with close to same fullness as when loud, soundstage 10 feet wide with and front to back dimension perfect being not to forward or to deep and images localized and all of this accurately represents each recording.

For Me Overall Balance is everthing and improper or odd Balance is off-putting even when certain aspects are really good

I have the XT25 with 5.25 HDS in a small set of speakers and prefer the HDS tweeter.

There is more comments on Joe's site and on the Forum(have to sift through)



Hope this helps, Joel

Luke 20th March 2011 04:14 AM

thanks Joel,

that's a good endorsement. I may look for other comments as well as its a long shot to actually hear these before I begin building them.

critofur 21st March 2011 11:09 PM

Here's one thing I miss most from speakers I hear recently, I don't know how better to explain it, but, let me try:

Let's imagine I'm listening to a recording of a cello playing, and compare it to a live cello: with the live cello, playing in a small venue I can FEEL the music - there's an energy I feel in the roots of my hairs, in my skin, I feel the vibration.

Mostly, when I listen to recordings on stereos this sensation is either mostly missing, or just not there at all.

I imagine that the Elsinores are better than most at satisfying that particular craving.

Something I didn't like about most high end speakers, including B&Ws, was the hot treble. I've got the feeling they want customers to hear "hidden detail" and "things they never heard before on their home speakers" when they're in the showroom. This gives me a headache and makes me want to turn off the music in a matter of minutes (or less).

I've generally found that speakers with a layout like the Elsinore (bass to mid units going from near the floor all the way up to listening level without too much space in between them) to be very nice because they don't suffer from "floor bounce cancellation".

EDIT: Oh, and that's interesting, your preference for the HDS tweeters - they seem to be very highly regarded by lots of folks. But, I have seen more people also dislike them, than some other tweeters such as the XT25 that you mention. I'd also like to hear from more people that have compared the RS28F to the HDS tweeters directly - I've only heard from a few people and those that I have heard from, prefered the RS28F (some even prefered them over high end Scan Speak tweeters).

critofur 22nd March 2011 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Wesseling (Post 2509780)
..I have the XT25 with 5.25 HDS in a small set of speakers and prefer the HDS tweeter.

You mean you tested the HDS tweeter in those same speakers, or, that you prefer the Elsinore to the little speakers?

Joel Wesseling 28th March 2011 01:47 AM

You mean you tested the HDS tweeter in those same speakers, or, that you prefer the Elsinore to the little speakers?

I prefer the treble in the Elsinore compared to the the treble in the small speakers with XT25. Texture and Tonal Characteristics.

Joel Wesseling 28th March 2011 02:16 AM

Quote:

Something I didn't like about most high end speakers, including B&Ws, was the hot treble. I've got the feeling they want customers to hear "hidden detail" and "things they never heard before on their home speakers" when they're in the showroom. This gives me a headache and makes me want to turn off the music in a matter of minutes (or less).
Its amazing how flawed some top rated speakers are and big name reviewers dont mention it in the reviews, well they might say- You have to pay close attention to amplifier selection- and this translate to - The treble will sound hard and be unlistenable if you dont choose the softest sounding amplifier but this amplifier must also have amazing control to prevent the bass from sounding flubby.

Renovator 8th April 2011 07:55 AM

Thanks for the comparisons
 
Thanks for posting this Joel.

I have been reading about them for a while, but it is a big commitment without having heard them. Opinions from those who have heard them and can give comparisons count a lot.

Have seen a number of people in the Elsinores thread who state that this "might" be their last speaker.

Cheers


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