Sony SS speaker mods

fraserh · 15th January 2009, 05:47 PM

Hello, i have some old sony ss-g1 speakers which i'd like to improve. My first step is to line the cabinets with better material and then move onto the crossover and later look at better drivers. Some of the parts are very unfamiliar to me though- has anyone come across the weird design for the mid-range before? It fires into a plastic cone rather than into the cabinet; the tweeter and bass are as normal. Also i can't make sense of the resistor values in the x-over... I've included photos of the speaker below... if anyone could recommend any good replacement drivers that would be good too... thankyou!!
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0937.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0936.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0935.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0934.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0933.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0931.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0927.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0925.jpg

MisterTwister · 15th January 2009, 06:23 PM

wow, looks like very nicely built speaker! I doubt that anything can be improved here. well, maybe I'd apply some damping material on large woofers' baskets to reduce ringing.

pjpoes · 15th January 2009, 06:29 PM

3R9 means 3.9 ohms. It's a non-inductive wirewound, and probably is of fine quality. I would probably only change the series caps with poly caps, and leave the rest alone. I don't find that there is a big difference in the sound of a parallel electrolytic cap, if any at all.

The midrange is pretty standard. The "cone" is a subenclosure to properly load the midrange, and to keep bass frequencies from modulating the midrange. This is a common practice in many speakers.

You can't really just change drivers willy nilly and have things work out. Changing to "better" drivers without optimizing the crossover will not improve the sound any. I would love them alone, make only minor mods, and be happy. If you want better sound, build new speakers from scratch with a tried and true design, or design one for yourself. Or buy better speakers. You can modify and improve the crossover, but that will require careful measurements and a good understanding of crossover design. I have done this, and have posted my results.

pjpoes · 15th January 2009, 06:32 PM

I also just noticed that those drivers are made in Norway, meaning they are probably made for Sony by Seas, and thus are very good drivers. Given their age, they are probably better than most people would realize. Again, I wouldn't touch the drivers unless you plan on redoing the crossover.

fraserh · 15th January 2009, 06:48 PM

Thanks for the helpful replies- and yes they sound very very nice in standard form; for more neutral than any others i've heard before.

Could anyone tell me how these were designed to be placed? At the moment i have them against the back wall with quite a heavy toe in.. It's difficult to experiment with different positions as my 'stands' are heavy concrete blocks with granite on top... Should they be further into the room? thanks

Antripodean · 15th January 2009, 07:53 PM

I think this link will help - He is a big Sony fan.
http://www.thevintageknob.org/SONY/s.../SSG1MKII.html
He " replaced half the wool inside them with Deflex panels for faster, more transparent low mids and bass. "

fraserh · 15th January 2009, 08:03 PM

I've replaced the stuffing that was in there with some egg crate shaped foam and some thick, heavy underlay which would normally go underneath a carpet; also replaced some wool loosely behind the mid and tweeter- left space behind the bass driver and damped the legs with putty... not night and day by any means but there's a definite improvement.

I tested A/B with dusty springfield 'son of a preacher man' and the bit where the bass walks all over the place towards the end was MUCH more coherent.. also played 'little sister' by QOTSA as sometimes the kick drum gets lost in the heavy parts but nope- pretty coherent all the way through even at louder volumes so i'm pretty pleased!!

I was wondering if the caps would be out of spec by now? That was my initial reasoning for replacing some parts of the speaker despite the good sound-

p.s. thanks for the link antipodean- i love that website!! some fine stuff on there

Taco · 16th January 2009, 08:02 AM

You could try replacing the capacitors used in series with the tweeter and midbass for MKP/MKT. If the value is large and MKP becomes expensive you could bypass only 1/3 of the value with MKP.

The coil used for the woofer (the one with the ferrite core) can be replaced by an air core coil with similar dc-resistance (this becomes very expensive though if the value is >3.3 mH)

Only do so, if you are happy to invest more money, say ~100 euro. Otherwise, leave it alone and enjoy the music.

Moondog55 · 16th January 2009, 10:32 AM

My initial reaction was to investigate the orientation of the coils replace the caps with better quality and use better stuffing in the box but keep those original drivers.
If you need better speakers than these start planning a new pair from the ground up.
Just my $0.02

MisterTwister · 16th January 2009, 02:06 PM

I was thinking about coils orientation also. but we don't know if designers placed them this way purposely.

15th January 2009, 05:47 PM	#1
fraserh diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2008	Sony SS speaker mods Hello, i have some old sony ss-g1 speakers which i'd like to improve. My first step is to line the cabinets with better material and then move onto the crossover and later look at better drivers. Some of the parts are very unfamiliar to me though- has anyone come across the weird design for the mid-range before? It fires into a plastic cone rather than into the cabinet; the tweeter and bass are as normal. Also i can't make sense of the resistor values in the x-over... I've included photos of the speaker below... if anyone could recommend any good replacement drivers that would be good too... thankyou!! http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0937.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0936.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0935.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0934.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0933.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0931.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0927.jpg http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a3...5/DSCN0925.jpg

16th January 2009, 10:32 AM	#9
Moondog55 diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norlane; Geelong: Victoria: Australia	My initial reaction was to investigate the orientation of the coils replace the caps with better quality and use better stuffing in the box but keep those original drivers. If you need better speakers than these start planning a new pair from the ground up. Just my $0.02 __________________ QUOTE" The more I know, the more I know, I know (insert maniacal laugh >here<) NOTHING"

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15th January 2009, 06:23 PM	#2
MisterTwister diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: usa Blog Entries: 1	wow, looks like very nicely built speaker! I doubt that anything can be improved here. well, maybe I'd apply some damping material on large woofers' baskets to reduce ringing.

15th January 2009, 06:29 PM	#3
pjpoes diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York	3R9 means 3.9 ohms. It's a non-inductive wirewound, and probably is of fine quality. I would probably only change the series caps with poly caps, and leave the rest alone. I don't find that there is a big difference in the sound of a parallel electrolytic cap, if any at all. The midrange is pretty standard. The "cone" is a subenclosure to properly load the midrange, and to keep bass frequencies from modulating the midrange. This is a common practice in many speakers. You can't really just change drivers willy nilly and have things work out. Changing to "better" drivers without optimizing the crossover will not improve the sound any. I would love them alone, make only minor mods, and be happy. If you want better sound, build new speakers from scratch with a tried and true design, or design one for yourself. Or buy better speakers. You can modify and improve the crossover, but that will require careful measurements and a good understanding of crossover design. I have done this, and have posted my results.

15th January 2009, 06:32 PM	#4
pjpoes diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York	I also just noticed that those drivers are made in Norway, meaning they are probably made for Sony by Seas, and thus are very good drivers. Given their age, they are probably better than most people would realize. Again, I wouldn't touch the drivers unless you plan on redoing the crossover.

15th January 2009, 06:48 PM	#5
fraserh diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2008	Thanks for the helpful replies- and yes they sound very very nice in standard form; for more neutral than any others i've heard before. Could anyone tell me how these were designed to be placed? At the moment i have them against the back wall with quite a heavy toe in.. It's difficult to experiment with different positions as my 'stands' are heavy concrete blocks with granite on top... Should they be further into the room? thanks

15th January 2009, 07:53 PM	#6
Antripodean diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2008	I think this link will help - He is a big Sony fan. http://www.thevintageknob.org/SONY/s.../SSG1MKII.html He " replaced half the wool inside them with Deflex panels for faster, more transparent low mids and bass. "

15th January 2009, 08:03 PM	#7
fraserh diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2008	I've replaced the stuffing that was in there with some egg crate shaped foam and some thick, heavy underlay which would normally go underneath a carpet; also replaced some wool loosely behind the mid and tweeter- left space behind the bass driver and damped the legs with putty... not night and day by any means but there's a definite improvement. I tested A/B with dusty springfield 'son of a preacher man' and the bit where the bass walks all over the place towards the end was MUCH more coherent.. also played 'little sister' by QOTSA as sometimes the kick drum gets lost in the heavy parts but nope- pretty coherent all the way through even at louder volumes so i'm pretty pleased!! I was wondering if the caps would be out of spec by now? That was my initial reasoning for replacing some parts of the speaker despite the good sound- p.s. thanks for the link antipodean- i love that website!! some fine stuff on there

16th January 2009, 08:02 AM	#8
Taco diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Place in the Netherlands	You could try replacing the capacitors used in series with the tweeter and midbass for MKP/MKT. If the value is large and MKP becomes expensive you could bypass only 1/3 of the value with MKP. The coil used for the woofer (the one with the ferrite core) can be replaced by an air core coil with similar dc-resistance (this becomes very expensive though if the value is >3.3 mH) Only do so, if you are happy to invest more money, say ~100 euro. Otherwise, leave it alone and enjoy the music.

16th January 2009, 02:06 PM	#10
MisterTwister diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: usa Blog Entries: 1	I was thinking about coils orientation also. but we don't know if designers placed them this way purposely.

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