I'd really like to go out and buy a used Audio Precision ATS-2 for $5-$10K, but that's not in the cards. 
What packages actually work for a DIY budget for audio spectrum analyzers?
Is the RTA package any good? http://www.trueaudio.com/rta_abt1.htm
Clio8 looks interesting, but it's not much cheaper than a used AP product. It looks like the Clio Lite only measures 1khz to 22khz for $1kusd plus $400 for the mic. The firewire version of Clio8 is $2700usd plus $400 for the mic and measures 1Hz-90kHz.
http://estore.websitepros.com/1736754/Categories.bok?category=CLIO
What else is out there that easy to use and actually measures accurately?
What is the experience of others?
Thank you for the help!
-David
What packages actually work for a DIY budget for audio spectrum analyzers?
Is the RTA package any good? http://www.trueaudio.com/rta_abt1.htm
Clio8 looks interesting, but it's not much cheaper than a used AP product. It looks like the Clio Lite only measures 1khz to 22khz for $1kusd plus $400 for the mic. The firewire version of Clio8 is $2700usd plus $400 for the mic and measures 1Hz-90kHz.
http://estore.websitepros.com/1736754/Categories.bok?category=CLIO
What else is out there that easy to use and actually measures accurately?
What is the experience of others?
Thank you for the help!
-David
I use leap /LMS available from Linear X....
http://www.linearx.com/
You can purchase separately ... The x-over design tool in leap is worth the entrance fee ....
http://www.linearx.com/
You can purchase separately ... The x-over design tool in leap is worth the entrance fee ....
What is it you want to do. I mean, I think that everyone I have used is good. Some are better than others, but they all are better than nothing.
Leap is often considered one of the industry standards, but is also really expensive for the average person. I've used it before in parallel to my own software packages from ATB and Speaker workshop, and think that I got similar results from those other packages. Speaker workship is really great software given that its free. It's biggest problem is the learning curve involved, and lack of formal support.
ATB's software is fine for most speaker design work, but the reasonably priced ATB PC Pro is pretty limited, and doesn't have the ability to perform any sort of decay plot. None the less, I can measure anything I need to for proper crossover design. I use Speaker Workshop to do most of my crossover design work.
I think a lot of people like and over use the auto crossover generators built into all of these, and would suggest not using any of them. In fact, I don't happen to like the optimizers either, and think reliance on these creates commonly bad crossovers. Learn the theory for yourself and design the crossovers on your own, don't rely on a computer to do it for you.
Clio is exceptional software as well, I haven't used it myself, but from everything I have seen or read, I believe that it's a fine software for anyone. If you can afford it, go for it.
My personal favorite for the moment is Woofer Tester Pro and Speaker Tester from smith and larson. I think the hardware is as competent as anyone's on the market. It's biggest problem when compared with the more established products is that the software isn't quite as refined. None the less, it does nothing wrong, is more than capable for the majority of users (novice to advanced), and has many unique features I really like.
I currently own ATB PC Pro and S&L Speaker Tester as my software and the Speaker tester interface as my primary hardware interface. I also have the Dayton WT3, and have found roughly identical results to these other packages for measuring impedance and t/s. I use a behrenger mic with custom correction file, or one of various used B&K mics I have picked up. I use modified tripods for my mic stands to isolate and support the mics. I also use a custom turntable with 5 degree markings for taking my measurements. I've made a closet of mine into a quasi-anechoic chamber (it's roughly anechoic above 800hz), and use outdoor measurements for everything below that. I would argue that the software and hardware you buy will be just the start. You rather quickly find that measurement jigs and technique are a huge part of getting accurate results, and that requires time.
Leap is often considered one of the industry standards, but is also really expensive for the average person. I've used it before in parallel to my own software packages from ATB and Speaker workshop, and think that I got similar results from those other packages. Speaker workship is really great software given that its free. It's biggest problem is the learning curve involved, and lack of formal support.
ATB's software is fine for most speaker design work, but the reasonably priced ATB PC Pro is pretty limited, and doesn't have the ability to perform any sort of decay plot. None the less, I can measure anything I need to for proper crossover design. I use Speaker Workshop to do most of my crossover design work.
I think a lot of people like and over use the auto crossover generators built into all of these, and would suggest not using any of them. In fact, I don't happen to like the optimizers either, and think reliance on these creates commonly bad crossovers. Learn the theory for yourself and design the crossovers on your own, don't rely on a computer to do it for you.
Clio is exceptional software as well, I haven't used it myself, but from everything I have seen or read, I believe that it's a fine software for anyone. If you can afford it, go for it.
My personal favorite for the moment is Woofer Tester Pro and Speaker Tester from smith and larson. I think the hardware is as competent as anyone's on the market. It's biggest problem when compared with the more established products is that the software isn't quite as refined. None the less, it does nothing wrong, is more than capable for the majority of users (novice to advanced), and has many unique features I really like.
I currently own ATB PC Pro and S&L Speaker Tester as my software and the Speaker tester interface as my primary hardware interface. I also have the Dayton WT3, and have found roughly identical results to these other packages for measuring impedance and t/s. I use a behrenger mic with custom correction file, or one of various used B&K mics I have picked up. I use modified tripods for my mic stands to isolate and support the mics. I also use a custom turntable with 5 degree markings for taking my measurements. I've made a closet of mine into a quasi-anechoic chamber (it's roughly anechoic above 800hz), and use outdoor measurements for everything below that. I would argue that the software and hardware you buy will be just the start. You rather quickly find that measurement jigs and technique are a huge part of getting accurate results, and that requires time.
Depends on what I'm measuring, but no, I don't use a gated response for most on axis measurements in my "chamber." ATB doesn't even use gated measurements at all, hence the need for the chamber. I basically built a chamber pretty consistent with the driver QC chambers that manufacturers build. They are too small for full free field measurements, but acceptable for certain other measurements, such as that of individual drivers. I wouldn't use this to measure an entire speaker system for instance. Is that what you were wondering about?
speaker workshop automatically gates for off axis measurements, and again, with ATB, it's not an option.
speaker workshop automatically gates for off axis measurements, and again, with ATB, it's not an option.
pjpoes, Thank you for the very thoughtful reply. I learned a lot from your post.
Has anyone used this package ETF5?: http://www.etfacoustic.com/index.html
Looks interesting, but their website leave a lot to be desired.
Speaker Workshop's testing jig looks pretty easy to make. http://www.speakerworkshop.com/SW/Project/Equipment.htm
Speaker Tester from Smith and Larson seems just about my speed. It would be great hear other opinions and experiences. The website dose not state the frequency range or resolution. Perhaps the specs are not so good? http://www.woofertester.com/stproduct.htm
-David
Has anyone used this package ETF5?: http://www.etfacoustic.com/index.html
Looks interesting, but their website leave a lot to be desired.
Speaker Workshop's testing jig looks pretty easy to make. http://www.speakerworkshop.com/SW/Project/Equipment.htm
Speaker Tester from Smith and Larson seems just about my speed. It would be great hear other opinions and experiences. The website dose not state the frequency range or resolution. Perhaps the specs are not so good? http://www.woofertester.com/stproduct.htm
-David
David:
I debated purchasing the WT II.
Wasted time on free software and building a jig, could not get it to calibrate.
Bought the WTII and am completely satisfied.
You can calibrate and generate in less than 5 mins.
AudioXpress had tests of past versions. Not as accurate as dedicated bench set up perhaps, but I built a design and generated an impedance sweep that was in agreement withe the published impedance curve.
The results are repeatable.
I debated purchasing the WT II.
Wasted time on free software and building a jig, could not get it to calibrate.
Bought the WTII and am completely satisfied.
You can calibrate and generate in less than 5 mins.
AudioXpress had tests of past versions. Not as accurate as dedicated bench set up perhaps, but I built a design and generated an impedance sweep that was in agreement withe the published impedance curve.
The results are repeatable.
Smith & Larson WTPro
I'd second the vote for the Smith & Larson measurement systems. The ICD contained in the ST and WTPro is essentially a Spice extension, allowing you to import Spice models and to make what is basically a digital crossover with them. That way you can do acoustic measurements of a physical speaker with a digital representation of a proposed passive crossover, modeled in Spice. The load impedance is from actual measurements too, instead of making a Spice model with Le, Re and tank circuits to simulate mechanical and acoustic resonances. This in addition to the standard T/S measurements and other acoustic measurement features.
I'd second the vote for the Smith & Larson measurement systems. The ICD contained in the ST and WTPro is essentially a Spice extension, allowing you to import Spice models and to make what is basically a digital crossover with them. That way you can do acoustic measurements of a physical speaker with a digital representation of a proposed passive crossover, modeled in Spice. The load impedance is from actual measurements too, instead of making a Spice model with Le, Re and tank circuits to simulate mechanical and acoustic resonances. This in addition to the standard T/S measurements and other acoustic measurement features.
I cannot believe nobody has mentioned SoundEasy. This does what the others do for much less. It can even analyze your room.
http://www.interdomain.net.au/~bodzio/
If you are a real cheapskate, you can get a pretty good Speaker Workshop setup going for <$100 in outlay.
All software is GIGO, though. If you don't know enough to enter the right data, you get garbage results.
http://www.interdomain.net.au/~bodzio/
If you are a real cheapskate, you can get a pretty good Speaker Workshop setup going for <$100 in outlay.
All software is GIGO, though. If you don't know enough to enter the right data, you get garbage results.
For "audio spectrum analyzers",you can choose the "spectraLAB" or other RTA software.
For measure the speaker frequency response or other,you can choose "speaker workshop"(free download) or LspLAB/Soundeasy/Winmls,all these use soundcard as hardware.And you can buy some hardware/software packet,like LMS/CLIO/LAUD/MLSSA.....
For measure the speaker frequency response or other,you can choose "speaker workshop"(free download) or LspLAB/Soundeasy/Winmls,all these use soundcard as hardware.And you can buy some hardware/software packet,like LMS/CLIO/LAUD/MLSSA.....
I use LMS. Its a bit costly but if you plan to design speakers seriously, its worth the investment. If you are just starting out, it makes more sense to use a simple RTA. I see DOD RTA on eBay sometimes going for about $100 or so. Comes with a mic too. Or a software type like from True Audio.
I use LMS too. I really like it for some things, like making final measurements of a finished design. I like the way it makes polar charts from a series of measurements. There are a lot of things I like LMS for. But at risk of sounding like a broken record, I prefer the Smith & Larson system for research and development work, because it has a lot more design tools built in.
There are certainly other measurement packages not mentioned.
Praxis by Liberty Instruments is very good.
ARTA is being used a lot these days and is pretty cheap.
I have to put in a vote for SoundEasy though. Given that it has a pretty full measurement suite, very complete box and XO design suite as well as a XO emulator built in (probably the biggest time saver in XO design I have ever used) there is no better tool for the money (under $250).
Sure tools like Clio (standard), MLSSA, Leap, etc are great tools for the professional environment, but SoundEasy will do as much if not more than many of them for a lot less money and that is great for the hobbiest.
Regards,
Dennis
Praxis by Liberty Instruments is very good.
ARTA is being used a lot these days and is pretty cheap.
I have to put in a vote for SoundEasy though. Given that it has a pretty full measurement suite, very complete box and XO design suite as well as a XO emulator built in (probably the biggest time saver in XO design I have ever used) there is no better tool for the money (under $250).
Sure tools like Clio (standard), MLSSA, Leap, etc are great tools for the professional environment, but SoundEasy will do as much if not more than many of them for a lot less money and that is great for the hobbiest.
Regards,
Dennis
hifimaker said:
I've used it to take room measurements for installing acoustic room treatment (see here http://spikyfish.com/acoustics/).
I haven't used it to perform speaker measurements (i.e. trying to 'remove' the room from the measurement) but I expect it would be quite usable - it all depends on what readings you need.
a.wayne said:I see , non gated to 800 Hz , must be a big closet
well I dont know, I guess it's not big enough to be truely anechoic that low probably. It's a converted walk in closet, maybe 8 feet deep, 5 or 6 feet wide, and 10 feet to the ceiling. You can't really get 2 full meters from the speakers so you can't take full speaker measurements, its more for individual driver measurements. I don't find though that I see any sign of the room down in that range, and do believe that the setup is absorbing much of the midrange in that area to reduce room effects.
either woofer tester pro or speaker tester. Not woofer tester II, that is simply a T/S measuring device. It doesn't have crossover software or the ability to measure the response of a speaker, just its impedance.
The reason I didn't recomend soundeasy is that it is more limited than the S&L package, is very hardware dependent, and has a pretty big learning curve. Appropriate hardware to run that at a comparable level to S&L is quite expensive, placing you within a few hundred dollars of the S&L rig, that I happen to prefer. That isn't to say that Soundeasy isn't great software and very capable, and for the savy user, can be a good value. I just think that, if budget allows, S&L, LMS, etc. are better packages.
The reason I didn't recomend soundeasy is that it is more limited than the S&L package, is very hardware dependent, and has a pretty big learning curve. Appropriate hardware to run that at a comparable level to S&L is quite expensive, placing you within a few hundred dollars of the S&L rig, that I happen to prefer. That isn't to say that Soundeasy isn't great software and very capable, and for the savy user, can be a good value. I just think that, if budget allows, S&L, LMS, etc. are better packages.
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