How do DIY drivers compare to those found in commercial speakers?

[JayH3]

I know this is a pretty broad question. I didnt really find the answers I was hoping for in my searches.

In a commercial speaker youre paying for the drivers, cabinet, xover components, design, marketing, etc...

How much of it is actually the drivers? Do commercial manufacturers like B&W have a big advantage with the drivers they are using or are they like $25 drivers we can get from PartsExpress with great implementation in thier cabinets?

The drivers I am considering for my project are Vifa tweeters and Tang Band woofers. With proper implementaion are these likely to leave me satisfied? My reference set of speakers are my $400 Paradigm Phantoms.

[TerryO]

It's a dirty "insiders" secret, but most diy'ers use much better drivers than most speaker companies do, with the exception of a couple of very expensive brands ($30,000 on up). Actually, it's the implementation and design that make a big difference.

Most of the commercial brand's pricing is determined by many other factors than the cost of the raw componets.

Remember, this is secret information and now that you're included among the "Select" you must take the "Vow of Silence". The unenlightened masses are not prepared to accept this Audio Truth and must be spared the Agony of Illumination!


Best Regards,
TerryO

[pjpoes]

I can't speak for all companies, but I have taken apart quite a few commercial designs to see what drivers are inside them. I would disagree with the above to say that many good brands use very good drivers, as good or better than many used by Diyers. The brand I'm most familiar with is JM Labs (Focal). The Electra line, while expensive, uses very expensive drivers. They aren't 30,000 dollars for the electra line either. The 2500 dollar monitor uses roughly 400 dollars in drivers. Figure another 100 dollars for crossover in those designs.

Another company that shocked me with the drivers they used was M&K. To say they were far lower in quality than I had expected for their exulted reputation and prices is an understatement. They used custom Vifa and Peerless drivers which would cost the DIYer no more than say 20 dollars a driver, and probably cost them a third that. I have never liked M&K speakers, but with so many people loving them, I would say that is a good case in point of implementation.

As for how the DIY speaker compares, I think that many people building their own speakers underestimate the difficulty in properly integrating drivers. It's not a trivial task, and I don't blame manufacturers for charging some of what they do to pay for that R&D. I don't happen to think their are very many good diy designs out there. Many seem more of an exercise in complexity than good design. When I design a crossover it usually requires many iterations before I get what I think is good. Thats just the crossover. Cabinet design requires carefully considering the distance between drivers and orientation on the cabinet, as well as general cabinet profile, which all have an impact on the sound of the speaker. A manufacturer needs to make many versions and make careful analysis to be sure of what they are selling. While not all companies do this, I have found that many companies we like to make fun of for their popularity and price, actually make a really good speaker for that much money. Infinity and Polk are two companies which come to mind, while not the very best, their large R&D departments sure have allowed some very good performing speakers for their respective prices. The drivers in both of those are custom to their application and need, but would be comparable to low/mid priced drivers (Polk used to use peerless drivers). JBL uses their own drivers which are often of very good quality for the price of the speaker, with some extreme quality drivers in their top designs. I would consider them among the best, but often are simply way too expensive, and arguably unnecessary (Does the dual 15" aquaplas woofers in the everest really perform better than a somewhat more basic design from B&C).

The last speaker I finished used two Mpyre Audio 6M midbass drivers, a Focal 6W as midrange, and a Focal TC120Td5 tweeter. I used a passive crossover of my design with 2nd order BW filters. I spent months just working on the crossover, and still was limited by my measuring ability and parts budget (I could only test so many designs). In the end these speakers had a retail value (based on parts alone) in excess of 2000 dollars. I would guess that a manufactured version of this would easily cost in excess of 5000 dollars, if not double that.

[planet10]

The really big companies have economies of scale that makes a custom driver very feasible & much less expensive than a comparable driver a diyer would buy one at a time.

dave

[TerryO]

Originally posted by planet10
The really big companies have economies of scale that makes a custom driver very feasible & much less expensive than a comparable driver a diyer would buy one at a time.

dave

Dave,
I agree that "some" really big companies actually do as you say. Companies like JBL and Microsoft will use a top designer to design their drivers. In fact, our own Dan Wiggins has designed a half dozen or more of JBL's drivers and has been under contract with Microsoft for 4 or 5 years now.


OTOH, "the Most Respected Name in Audio" uses the cheapest drivers available and often will actually get custom design work done if they can't find a driver that's cheap enough.

It's also interesting that some small companies like the (late) RAW Acoustic and Exodus Audio will use very high grade or even SOTA custom drivers in their offerings at what, in the general Audiophile world, would be considered very reasonable prices.


I think that Bob Stout of the old Bass List used to have a listing of the drivers that manufacturers used in their various speaker models. Very few used anything approaching the top of the line drivers from the better driver companies.

Best Regards,
TerryO

[pedroskova]

Originally posted by planet10
The really big companies have economies of scale that makes a custom driver very feasible & much less expensive than a comparable driver a diyer would buy one at a time.

dave

Infinity and their ceramic / metal composite drivers come to mind.

[mclsound]

i started off with the PMC IB1,$200 total for the mid and hi for both speakers,the list price on these are $11,000.

[planet10]

Originally posted by pedroskova
Infinity and their ceramic / metal composite drivers come to mind.

Infinity, Revel, & JBL can all be lumped together, as they largely share driver R & D, and certainly use Harman group muscle to get volume efficiencies.

dave

[Saturnus]

The biggest differences between diy'ers and commercial products are 3 fold:

1) Labour cost - a diy'er is cheaper in labour than even the most lowly paid worker in the entire world. If a diy'er would include the labour cost of designing and building their speakers, I bet that most diy speakers would be far more expensive than a comparable commercial product.

2) Cost to market - commercial companies need to get what they make sold, so they have produce commercials or have other marketing costs involved or they'd be out of business quick.

3) Transport cost - speakers are generally big and heavy compared to other products in mass and size for the same overhead, meaning it costs you a great deal of money to sell the same product countrywide and multible orders more worldwide.

Off course there are idealistic companies that basically are mass producing diy'ers for which profit margins are less important and that don't have to answer to shareholders for lack of profit at the end of the day.

[eeyore]

My understanding is that costs of raw materials are generally 5 to 10 times less then the retail price. Depending on company, etc.

However, the biggest advantage with DIY (I think), is not the quality of components, but the fun one has designing, building, testing, discussing and enjoying something of your own creation, as they say "priceless".