Cloth Ears said:
I think much CNC software will convert DXF's to CNC formats. Do you know the format you require? IGES is one I remember that our punch presses used to use.
search xxx2yyy to xxxtoyyy on google, wheree xxx is the file extension you are converting from and yyy is the extension you are converting to.
ensen.Do you mean a CAM package (to make your drawings ready to run on a CNC machine)?
If so, SheetCAM is a great tool - cheap, and works very well. I use it to prepare drawings done using ProgeCAD for use on a CNC machine that's controlled by the also excellent Mach software.
I believe Mach now comes with its own simple CAM tool, should you be after running some small jobs.
EDIT: If you're just after making the drawings (DXF) then the ProgeCAD package I mentioned is very good - the lite version is free, and is very similar to AutoCAD in many of its behaviours.
If so, SheetCAM is a great tool - cheap, and works very well. I use it to prepare drawings done using ProgeCAD for use on a CNC machine that's controlled by the also excellent Mach software.
I believe Mach now comes with its own simple CAM tool, should you be after running some small jobs.
EDIT: If you're just after making the drawings (DXF) then the ProgeCAD package I mentioned is very good - the lite version is free, and is very similar to AutoCAD in many of its behaviours.
I was just down at a place that has lots of boards (ply, veneered chipboard, veneered MDF, veneered ply) and they also have a CNC machine. I enquired as to what files are required to give to them so that they can just load them up on the machine and set it running and they said "DXF or DWG".
I tend to generate my board sizes and cut-out in Excel (and then do the marking and cut-out manually). So I was wondering what is used to generate these CNC input files and maybe save myself some worry - some of the stuff I'm looking at will be time consuming and tricky (with a jigsaw) and hard to make templates for (with a router).
If I'm just getting someone else to do it (and only 10 miles away) then it would make it so much easier. Just hand over the folding stuff and get back pretty boards all ready to be stuck together!
I tend to generate my board sizes and cut-out in Excel (and then do the marking and cut-out manually). So I was wondering what is used to generate these CNC input files and maybe save myself some worry - some of the stuff I'm looking at will be time consuming and tricky (with a jigsaw) and hard to make templates for (with a router).
If I'm just getting someone else to do it (and only 10 miles away) then it would make it so much easier. Just hand over the folding stuff and get back pretty boards all ready to be stuck together!
Ah, I misunderstood you.
Do a search for free DXF CAD - you will find a lot of options
ProgeCAD and IntelliCAD are among the best, speaking as an AutoCAD user, because they are clones of the AutoCAD User Interface. There are other free programs like BRL CAD and QCAD which can deal in DXF files.
IntelliCAD is worth purchasing, let alone downloading the free version.
Do a search for free DXF CAD - you will find a lot of options
ProgeCAD and IntelliCAD are among the best, speaking as an AutoCAD user, because they are clones of the AutoCAD User Interface. There are other free programs like BRL CAD and QCAD which can deal in DXF files.
IntelliCAD is worth purchasing, let alone downloading the free version.
Hi jon, that sort of software is one I would be prepared to share purchase price of, trouble is I'm having to move to Geelong in a couple of months.
I don't even use Excell, just a pencil and some old graph paper
What we Melbourne DIYers need is a big group shared workshop, but independent people like we DIYers will probably never agree on a location or share cost for something as ongoing as a shared factory
I don't even use Excell, just a pencil and some old graph paper
What we Melbourne DIYers need is a big group shared workshop, but independent people like we DIYers will probably never agree on a location or share cost for something as ongoing as a shared factory
Cloth Ears said:
You don't need any CAD or CAM software to create a CNC program file unless you are doing some 3D surfaces. All you need is an accurate sketch with dimensions and a coordinate zero point. Straight lines, circles and straight angles can be easily programmed manually. The G codes are all the same except for a few machine specific codes at the beginning of the program that the machine operator can program in a few minutes. Most machine controllers can read standard G code. IF the machine has it's own programming language and will not read G code you can get the programmers manual for the machine and learn to program it.
If you need to use 2D CAD software to get accurate dimensions from a drawing so you can program it manually there are a few simple freeware CAD programs that can do this.
Lots of CNC machine controllers can load DXF or other 2D CAD files directly to help in programming but it is not necessary on most machines for programming. CAM software only becomes necessary when doing 3D curved surfaces. Because even though the code is simple you would need to make tens of thousands of trig calculations in 3 dimensions in very fine intervals.
The CNC files themselves are just .txt files but sometimes use a different file extension depending on the machine controller. You can program in notepad in windows. Or you can use some freeware CNC editors. Don't use a wordprocessor since hidden formatting charactors can mess up the CNC controller and cause it confusion.
They probably said DXF or DWG to make it easy for you (and themselves). Both formats are autoCAD formats and have absolutely nothing to do with the files the CNC machine reads, those files are in different formats depending the machine but always follow the CNC programming language.
You could just as easily write a CNC program and save it in a TXT file and just change the file extension to whatever is used on the CNC machine in question. I do that all the time, ie write CNC programs in TXT files and change the file extension to the machine that is going to run the program, though the CNC machine I mainly run on can read the TXT files directly and can also save them back in the format.
Depending on the machine properties, especially if it has a tool revolver, I just put addition coding in REM lines ( ";" in CNC language) or SUB routines ( ":xx" flags in CNC language).
You could just as easily write a CNC program and save it in a TXT file and just change the file extension to whatever is used on the CNC machine in question. I do that all the time, ie write CNC programs in TXT files and change the file extension to the machine that is going to run the program, though the CNC machine I mainly run on can read the TXT files directly and can also save them back in the format.
Depending on the machine properties, especially if it has a tool revolver, I just put addition coding in REM lines ( ";" in CNC language) or SUB routines ( ":xx" flags in CNC language).
The people in question are Allboards (that moondog mentioned earlier) and they said that they can take those types of files. I'm sure they would also be able to program stuff in or work it out from my instructions, but I'd rather have the whole lot in a file than can be directly loaded into the machine and start cutting. Save me and Allboards a lot of time stuffing around.
As the cut-outs are generally 2D, but occasionally 3D (rebates for drivers, round-overs and 45 degree cuts for joining veneered edges) I'd want to be able to create 3D files.
Saturnus, I'd be interested in creating a CNC machine file - although I guess I'd have to know the actual machine type (would I?). Is there somewhere to read up on that on the Big Wide Wonderful Web?
And thanks for all the responses!
As the cut-outs are generally 2D, but occasionally 3D (rebates for drivers, round-overs and 45 degree cuts for joining veneered edges) I'd want to be able to create 3D files.
Saturnus, I'd be interested in creating a CNC machine file - although I guess I'd have to know the actual machine type (would I?). Is there somewhere to read up on that on the Big Wide Wonderful Web?
And thanks for all the responses!
Cloth Ears said:
That wouldn't actually be 3D, that's just 2D were the cutting plane is set to different depths and different tools are used.
Yeah, you pretty much have to know what type of programming each machine accepts to do it as I do, and that's probably why the requested an autoCAD format, so they could just pull it into that and have it translate it to something the machine actually running the program understands.
I actually have no idea if the wonderful web has any good sites on CNC programming, I learned it in the mid 1980s when I started working at JBL, so I guess I just have 20 years+ of experience to draw on. The oldest machines I've worked on didn't even follow the standard line format but was just comma seperated data files.
Unless the job you're looking at is trivially simple, I wouldn't recommend hand coding files for a CNC machine (i.e. gcode).
The process (for 2d work) is that you'd supply a DXF (or DWG, or something else if they'll take it) drawing, and indicate what thickness of material (and what material) you need, to what depth pockets and rebates are to be cut, and what sort of finish you're after.
The operator will then run this through a CAM package, taking into account the working envelope of his machine (how long, how tall, how deep), the cutting speed capabilities of his machine (which will vary depending on the material being used, the cutting bit required (thin for detail, thick for faster cutting, or wide pockets) and the cutting bit geometry (straight flute, up cut or down cut spiral, chip breaker, number of flutes etc. etc.)), as this will also dictate finish. Also taken into account is the maximum depth of cut in a single pass, whether a finishing pass is required, if the job is suitable for vacuum hold down, or will require tabs or onion skinning, and so on.
Basically, I wouldn't run a third party gcode file on my CNC machine without going over every line, and running some sims, as there could easily be something present that would be catastrophic. I'd always ask for a drawing file, and run it through my CAM package.
If you're interested in the world of CNC, then http://cnczone.com/ is a good site. You'll find me on there, also as sploo, usually in the Commercial CNC Wood Routers > K2CNC section.
The process (for 2d work) is that you'd supply a DXF (or DWG, or something else if they'll take it) drawing, and indicate what thickness of material (and what material) you need, to what depth pockets and rebates are to be cut, and what sort of finish you're after.
The operator will then run this through a CAM package, taking into account the working envelope of his machine (how long, how tall, how deep), the cutting speed capabilities of his machine (which will vary depending on the material being used, the cutting bit required (thin for detail, thick for faster cutting, or wide pockets) and the cutting bit geometry (straight flute, up cut or down cut spiral, chip breaker, number of flutes etc. etc.)), as this will also dictate finish. Also taken into account is the maximum depth of cut in a single pass, whether a finishing pass is required, if the job is suitable for vacuum hold down, or will require tabs or onion skinning, and so on.
Basically, I wouldn't run a third party gcode file on my CNC machine without going over every line, and running some sims, as there could easily be something present that would be catastrophic. I'd always ask for a drawing file, and run it through my CAM package.
If you're interested in the world of CNC, then http://cnczone.com/ is a good site. You'll find me on there, also as sploo, usually in the Commercial CNC Wood Routers > K2CNC section.
Some newbie questions about CNC, if I may:
If I were to supply the correct panel dimensions, would edges still need to be flush trimmed etc?
Can they do large roundovers?
Can you just supply the CNC operator with the full sheet of wood and they'll do it all?
Is this likely to be a cost effective way of doing things vs. purchasing tools + spending time to do it all myself.
Thanks
If I were to supply the correct panel dimensions, would edges still need to be flush trimmed etc?
Can they do large roundovers?
Can you just supply the CNC operator with the full sheet of wood and they'll do it all?
Is this likely to be a cost effective way of doing things vs. purchasing tools + spending time to do it all myself.
Thanks
wakibaki said:
wakibaki answered pretty accurately so I'll just take the last one. I think by roundover, he means edge rounding, and that can be done in several ways, either by a special tool for it, by several runs of a regular tool that will require addition sanding or by rotational joint regular tool.
It's also hard to say if it's cost/effective. It depends on the hour rates the maker takes and how much of the work you put into it yourself. If you can supply g-code files made spefically for the machine making it and the wood used then the price would be completely different than if you can just provide a sketch of what the end result is supposed to be like.
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