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Old 15th December 2008, 05:11 AM   #1
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Default Reflections off glass and hard surfaces in - Hz

Hi

I have a large open “family” space I listen to a lot of music in, which is too live: slate walls, a fair amount of glass. I know the best solution is thick curtains, wall hangings and rugs, but I’ve broached this a number of times - my other half will not agree . .

I’m looking at two alternatives for speakers for this space (both with active subs). One with 10 inch midbass (PHLs) to run 100 – about 1500 Hz, crossing to eg a Seas H1212 or Peerless 810921; the other the about to released Lambda 6.5 inch 6.5TDM (very smooth on axis up higher), crossing about an octave higher, say at 3 – 3.5 kHz.

With an XO –speaker combination that has more concentrated response over the range 1.5 – 3.5 kHz, (other things being equal) will that lessen the over liveliness – "echoey" quality at all?

Thanks
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Old 15th December 2008, 08:07 AM   #2
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I should have said slate *floors . . overall a clattery sort of sound predominates

Thanks
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Old 15th December 2008, 09:18 AM   #3
sploo is offline sploo  United Kingdom
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I think it's unlikely that different XO configurations will help you.

It's possible that an open baffle (OB) or omni-directional speaker design will be better (take a look at http://www.linkwitzlab.com/).

If you can position speakers so they're a good distance from the side walls, that will help, but I suspect a thick rug would also make a large difference. If you want to try to convince "the boss" then lay a duvet on the floor at what would be the reflection points and give it a listen - the difference may be sufficient to be persuasive.
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Old 15th December 2008, 02:05 PM   #4
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Sploo said exactly what I was thinking. An Omni would present a lot less reflective "noise" in the room and sound a lot more relaxed.

You could also look at "in-wall" sound treatments and ceiling treatments that aren't as intrusive. A good rug, a book case, and maybe corner traps. There are lots of ways to treat a room, but many aren't good for WAF.

XO points and directional speakers aren't likely to offer much in the way of help. You could use a high-end IQ to attenuate the worst of the problems, but I doubt it will help much with the "echoey" effect.

Good luck.


Robert
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Old 15th December 2008, 10:00 PM   #5
Ron E is offline Ron E  United States
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Take a picture or make a drawing and post it, or you are just wasting your time reading people's guesses. If it echoes, you need more absorption or diffusion, so either fill the room with furniture and knicknacks or put up some absorbing panels (ceiling?). EQ will not make this go away, and omni speakers will just bounce more sound off of the reflective walls.
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Old 16th December 2008, 12:27 PM   #6
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Try reading Geddes thoughts on domestic room acoustics, it may
make you feel better if nothing else, I do tend to agree with him.

See http://www.gedlee.com/downloads/Chapter%204.pdf

/sreten.
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Old 16th December 2008, 02:40 PM   #7
owen is offline owen  United Kingdom
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Old 16th December 2008, 06:04 PM   #8
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by otto88
I should have said slate *floors
I'm glad you said that - those slate walls had me wondering about you lot down under!

Let us know what you come up with. Rooms with the right treaments really, really do make a difference. Not always easy to do in a domestic situation.....
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Old 17th December 2008, 02:07 AM   #9
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Thanks for all the suggestions.

Yes, open baffle would help - but WAF wont allow any space from the rear wall; I agree with Ron re diffuse sound from omni-directional speakers . .

I’ve read some on acoustics, and I’ll have a good read through Geddes article tonight, thanks.

I’ve done a floor plan to scale in Excel, attached.

It’s a casual living & listening area, but I do listen there a *lot. There’s no scope to put a book case or corner traps in, as the floor plan should make clear (it was fully furnished years ago). The walls above the cupboards have posters on them, but . .

I may be able to do some discretely covered ceiling absorbing panels, thanks I hadn’t thought of that. Also a friend has a spare sophisticated Rane XO with a ridiculous number of EQ options, that could be the final step.

My thinking re driver sizes is
- the frequency range that most of the problem occur in is likely 1500 – 3500 Hz (the clattery sort of sound). I should verify this with some sort of measurements . .
- over that range, a 6.5 inch would give a much more concentrated response than any tweeter, a similar benefit, though on a reduced scale, to the controlled directivity of open baffles, reducing room interaction.

Actually if I crossed at c 3500 Hz to a horn loaded tweeter (like a apir of the Eminence ~ I think its APT-80 ~ that I picked up at one point), that will give a more concentrated response right through the treble range as well . .

Any merit in that?

Cheers
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Old 17th December 2008, 05:22 AM   #10
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