Dual woofers in OB v single

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#61
In the room I listened to the cheap Jaycars semed to have a richer deeper bass, it may have been the environment or the test boxes being used ( don't you just love cardboard boxes) but I was evaluating bass, so there was a big inductor in front ( again EL-Cheapo jaycar 9mH.
The eminence may very well be much clearer in mid bass and may equalise better, it was just the way my ears heard them.

I'm happy enough with them to use them in my system, but bear im mind the P13s are only 88dB/1watt, and power handling on the Jaycars is limited to 4 watts when I model them OB. which is why I need 4 of them to keep up with the mids
This is why I'm going to be crossing at 40 to big subs.
I have a couple of panels here than I can make up so I actually have plans for another smaller sysyem using 1*12inch plus 1*10inch as the bass drivers.
I can only give you my personal opinion here, so take it with the proverbiale pinch, others on this forum have the opposite view.

The Jaycars have a nostalgic resonance similar to my memories of sitting in front of my grannies old valve radio late at night
 
#64
Yeah, I saw those. I thought the price was a bit close to the cheap Betas and Nippon's build quality is about on a par with those Jaycars, I think.

Ted, by the way, what setup do you use to EQ?

I'm like a bloody metronome in my decision making - leaning one way then the next...gotta get moving. I'm starting to think I should get the Jaycars as a cheap learning experience.

Stu
 
#65
The cheapest possible "NONE" !!
I rely on the chosen drivers and box size to give me the performance I want.
Possibly because I don't want to stuff up when making the electronics myself. I do have a BBE 'Sonic maximiser' that I usefrom time to time to help with mid-tweeter alignment problems but it works best with speakers with badly designed XOs anyway.
It boils down to a personal design preference to prefer surface area against power I suppose.
Not that I have anything against raw brute power, My current setup probably is the equal of a single 1000W unit, but most of the time I am probably using les than 5-10 watts.
Must say though my current listeners are less than efficient so the pre-amp is set around 4

I don't think ( as a learning experience) that you'll beat a pair of Jaycar 12's if using OB, crossed to any reasonable mid.
I'm trying now to decide which subs to use.
I have been out of work since September and I can't keep asking CC to pay for drivers when she is after all paying the rent.
BTW, that offer of the little full-range still stands
 
#66
Ahh! You mentioned me using EQ a few times, so I guessed you did as well. I'd rather not, too, even if it meant missing out on a little lower end extension. I might change my mind there, though.

Those Jaycar's are looking like a possibility. I can go without too much SPL I reckon.

They'd match pretty well with a FR around 85dB efficient, too, wouldn't they? I know this'd make the whole speaker very inefficient, but I'm going to be running a 150W SKA amp. The CSS is paper coned/rubber surround and would be an OK match for the Jaycars. I think.

I've just got this thing about trying no crossover up top, even if I end up changing it so I can hear the cymbals!

Stu
 
#67
I think they will have more potential than that, my modelling gives 90dB so a more effiicient mid is a possibility and you can always add a super tweeter with just a cap later.
I mentioned EQ because most people use it in OBs possibly because so few drivers have all of the needed attributes.
I'll just run the figures again using a box size of 100kL and get back to you.
 
#68
OK single driver 85dB, so you are correct. So one woofer won't really be enough, 5 watts only give you 93dB, so no head-room, I like at least 6dB headroom and I like my music a little louder than normal so I like the base level around 90dB or so.
This is why I need all 4 woofers for mine.

But even with 2 woofers on a baffle they'd be fairly small and WAF friendly, 450 * 900 with small side wings 125/150 deep, and if you need the tweeter later just mount it free on top

Up side is a little amp will do it nicely, even our little 30 watt Denon would do it.

Low end is OK with the Jaycar 30 Hz is pretty deep bass, but the high "Q" means lots of cone movement at that resonant frequency, X-max is exceeded long before thermal power limit.
I know that most music doesn't have a lot of information down that low but I listen to a lot of the "Chillout sessions" and some of those low synth tones would blow he VC right out of the gap if playing loud.
Like I said about 20 posts ago, some times you just have to be willing to make a mistake, just do it, but make it look pretty
( better WAF )
 
#69
I'd definitely be getting 4 of them, two per side. I never thought of just one per side.

Thanks for all that. I'm just figuring out how to model this stuff, so your help is welcome.

Chillout? You talking about Ministry of Sound? I've got a few of those myself.

I realise what you mean about making mistakes. I should just do it and learn. To be honest, with young-ish kids I don't crank it much except when they all go out, so it'll be fine most of the time. What the hell with $24 woofers!

Cheers Ted

Stu
 
#70
Well the family clubbed together and gave me some Xmas cash for my project. I'm seriously re-considering the Silver Irises now!

Not really DIY, but I think a easy route to OK sound. And if I don't like 'em, they'll sell easily. I'm a bit slack since I've been ill.

I've read that their midrange doesn't thrill some people, but I like the look of them and am willing to give it a go.

Have you heard them, Ted?

Stu
 
#71
No. I have not had the opportunity yet, but more lovers of them than haters so the good points must outweigh the bad for most people.

I am a more than a little jealous, thats some Xmas present.
You will still need some bass augmentation from all I've read tho, ou may well end up with a baffle with 3 * 15inch drivers in it.
 
#72
The family didn't give me the lot, but they just got me over the line, knowing I was about to buy.

I figured that by the time I got all the drivers and crossover for the OB's it'd cost the same as the Hawthornes. I hate the thought of paying so much for postage, but I've decided to turn a blind eye at this aspect and just look at the fact I'd be getting the 'running gear' in one go for about the same overall cost.

I'd been thinking of the SI's for a while; starting with a single 15 coax on what they call a 'Duet' baffle, then augmenting it later with another 15 underneath. Apparently the single coax is acceptable on its own, just a little thin bass-wise, but OK. I've decided to hang the WAF... (Stuey ducks as he types).

I'm lucky in that I haven't been spolied by really good sound, so I reckon they'll be great for me!

Still, I might change my mind yet! Ha Ha. The Hawthorne prices go up on 1 Jan, though, I believe, so I haven't got much time.

The Hawthornes certainly are nice people to deal with.

Stuey
 
#73
Black VS Silver Alpha 15''A

Sorry to just jump in with questions, but plz could someone answer on this one ?? 😀
Today i bought another pair of Eminence Alpha 15" but as my local distributor did not have the same series of Alpha's, they send me one with silver sticker and one with black(i have 2 silver on U baffle).
I wonder if anyone tried to compare these two, because i did and i think that "Black" is better Alpha15'' - less shouting from 10db peak and it seems that it radiates more low bass energy 😕

Is there anyone to confirm this ???
I know that the difference may be subtle and more or less different from series to series within same production line (sticker 😀 ), but if i was about to buy another pair of Eminence Alpha15'' i would rather go for series with black sticker :smash:
 
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