i have an existing set of speakers that i want to biamp. the speakers are rather power hungry and my home theater amp doesnt have enough kick for them.
the idea was to disconnect the sub from the existing crossover, and use a separate amp for the sub (with car audio electronic crossover)
ive been told that i can just disconnect a driver from a crossover, which doesn't make sense to me, as im removing a load, they should be fine right? (as i was told, it has the possibilty of reducing the impedance of the circuit to the point of possibly shorting out the amp) but im not an electronics expert, so i defer to those knowledgeable in such subjects!
the speakers in question are cerwin vega vs-150
thanks!
the idea was to disconnect the sub from the existing crossover, and use a separate amp for the sub (with car audio electronic crossover)
ive been told that i can just disconnect a driver from a crossover, which doesn't make sense to me, as im removing a load, they should be fine right? (as i was told, it has the possibilty of reducing the impedance of the circuit to the point of possibly shorting out the amp) but im not an electronics expert, so i defer to those knowledgeable in such subjects!
the speakers in question are cerwin vega vs-150
thanks!
Hi Zorac,
First off, those speakers are very efficient. One watt would be too loud for most ears. If your amp doesn't cut it, don't blame the speakers.
Second, with 3 drivers per box you might wish to consider tri-amping or you might not get what you are looking for but...
Third, I wouldn't spend a lot on those. They are a party speaker only. They are not intended for critical listening just volume.
Four, they are already balanced. Splitting off the woofer will only add bass. Not necessarily a good thing.
Sorry to tinkle on your parade but I'm not sure you're headed down the right path.
First off, those speakers are very efficient. One watt would be too loud for most ears. If your amp doesn't cut it, don't blame the speakers.
Second, with 3 drivers per box you might wish to consider tri-amping or you might not get what you are looking for but...
Third, I wouldn't spend a lot on those. They are a party speaker only. They are not intended for critical listening just volume.
Four, they are already balanced. Splitting off the woofer will only add bass. Not necessarily a good thing.
Sorry to tinkle on your parade but I'm not sure you're headed down the right path.
I'm a little confused, though that is nothing new.
Are your existing speakers bi-wire/bi-amp capable?
By that I mean, are there separate connections on the back for the high and low speakers. This will usually mean FOUR speaker post connectors instead of two on each speaker, and they will be 'jumped' together with a flat strip of metal.
If your speakers are bi-wire/bi-amp capable, then the internal crossovers are already separated into Low and Mid/High sections. Remove the jumper bar, and connect one amp to the Low and another amp to the Mid/High and you are there. Simple as that.
Next, you have an AV amp, but what amp and with how many channels? (specs on the amp would save me the trouble of looking them up.)
If it is a 7.1 amp with 7 active channels, then you likely have a spare pair of amps available; assuming of course, you are running 5.1.
Personally, I suspect any problem you are having is merely a problem with the always compromised AV amp. AV amp are notorious for only delivering rated power when one channel is driven. When all channels are driven your 100watts/ch amp drops down to 30watts/ch. The problem isn't the amps themselves, it's the inability of the power supply to supply the current demand to all the amps at once.
That is, unless you have a premium AV amp that has a massive and even multiple power supplies.
It seems to me, if you insist on Surround Sound, then you simply upgrade to a massive 7 channel amp with hefty power supplies, and, assuming you have bi-wire/bi-amp capable speakers, and assuming you are running 5.1, use the extra two channels to bi-amp your speakers.
If your speakers are not bi-wire/bi-amp capable, then things get complicated and expensive. You are going to need multiple EXPENSIVE external active crossovers, and six amp channels to run them.
That's great for stereo, but I'm not sure how to correctly integrate this expensive collection into surround sound.
I would say, expect to spend $1000 to $2000 doing this right. Or you could simply spend a $1000 on a first rate 7 channel AV amp, but, again, that assumes your speakers are even bi-amp capable.
Also, keep in mind that you can't just attach random crossovers to the speakers. The crossover frequencies and slopes have been very precisely planned and executed by the manufacturer, and you need to duplicate them precisely. Also keep in mind that the internal passive crossovers may have additional components to flatten out and equalize the response. Not to mention tweaks to moderate and control the overall speaker impedance. These little tweaks would not necessarily be available to your with external active crossovers. In that case, you would need the addition of an somewhat expensive equalizer.
It is not a simple task that you are proposing. Certainly what you are proposing can be done, just expect to spend LOTS of money doing it.
Steve/bluewizard
Are your existing speakers bi-wire/bi-amp capable?
By that I mean, are there separate connections on the back for the high and low speakers. This will usually mean FOUR speaker post connectors instead of two on each speaker, and they will be 'jumped' together with a flat strip of metal.
If your speakers are bi-wire/bi-amp capable, then the internal crossovers are already separated into Low and Mid/High sections. Remove the jumper bar, and connect one amp to the Low and another amp to the Mid/High and you are there. Simple as that.
Next, you have an AV amp, but what amp and with how many channels? (specs on the amp would save me the trouble of looking them up.)
If it is a 7.1 amp with 7 active channels, then you likely have a spare pair of amps available; assuming of course, you are running 5.1.
Personally, I suspect any problem you are having is merely a problem with the always compromised AV amp. AV amp are notorious for only delivering rated power when one channel is driven. When all channels are driven your 100watts/ch amp drops down to 30watts/ch. The problem isn't the amps themselves, it's the inability of the power supply to supply the current demand to all the amps at once.
That is, unless you have a premium AV amp that has a massive and even multiple power supplies.
It seems to me, if you insist on Surround Sound, then you simply upgrade to a massive 7 channel amp with hefty power supplies, and, assuming you have bi-wire/bi-amp capable speakers, and assuming you are running 5.1, use the extra two channels to bi-amp your speakers.
If your speakers are not bi-wire/bi-amp capable, then things get complicated and expensive. You are going to need multiple EXPENSIVE external active crossovers, and six amp channels to run them.
That's great for stereo, but I'm not sure how to correctly integrate this expensive collection into surround sound.
I would say, expect to spend $1000 to $2000 doing this right. Or you could simply spend a $1000 on a first rate 7 channel AV amp, but, again, that assumes your speakers are even bi-amp capable.
Also, keep in mind that you can't just attach random crossovers to the speakers. The crossover frequencies and slopes have been very precisely planned and executed by the manufacturer, and you need to duplicate them precisely. Also keep in mind that the internal passive crossovers may have additional components to flatten out and equalize the response. Not to mention tweaks to moderate and control the overall speaker impedance. These little tweaks would not necessarily be available to your with external active crossovers. In that case, you would need the addition of an somewhat expensive equalizer.
It is not a simple task that you are proposing. Certainly what you are proposing can be done, just expect to spend LOTS of money doing it.
Steve/bluewizard
BlueWizard said:
i would suspect thats my exact problem.
previously i had a yamaha m-80 powering them, and recently moved to an AV amp (instead of my previous setup where the HTPC fed directly to the amps). I needed the flexability of the AV amp (yamaha htr-6190, aka rx-v1800) and went that route.
the speakers are not bi-amp capable, which why i was hoping to simply unplug the subs, and use an electronic crossover to match the previous crossover point and power them with another amp
my home theater speakers are fairly welll matched, and i dont really want to get into starting upgrading the whole system.
i may resort to just using the preamps out and a separate stereo amp (since i have one just sitting anyway) for those two channels, but since the AV amp has the output would be nice to make use of the power aviable.
Cal Weldon said:
everytime i look at upgrading them, and start sampling new speakers, the price to get something that sound significantly better is out of my range, let alone the fact i would need to upgrade the amps to justify the new speakers! and after that im afraid my wife would kill me!
We can continue to talk in generalities, what we need to get to the nitty gritty is a picture of the loudpeaker, and a picturew of the crossover,,, then we call help you sketch out the XO cirxuit and figure out wgat is doable,
One other question: what is the nominal impedance of the CVs?
dave
One other question: what is the nominal impedance of the CVs?
dave
I agree 100% w what Cal Weldon said initially.
If you read those user reviews the power issue is common.
The first thing I would recommend is to borrow a high power amplifier to hear the difference.
Personally I have never been a fan of CV, so assessment #3 ( party speaker ) is spot on.
A speaker with an MSRP of $540, in many cases sells for less than that in a box store - subtract commissions - and ALL the other cost a manufacturer like CV has to include and you see that the actual material cost is a small fraction of the street price. 15 to 20% in many cases.
So then you got to ask, what can you purchase in the way of drivers, capacitors, inductors, etc for that amount of capital...
One problem: you can not find any measured performance for this model. The 102db rating is unspecified, If we have any bets, mine would be that it is less than that - closer to 99db.
That still should be enough sensitivity, provided you have ample power.
FWIW: I use 2 DH220, and another 250 watt amplifier for my system
If you read those user reviews the power issue is common.
The first thing I would recommend is to borrow a high power amplifier to hear the difference.
Personally I have never been a fan of CV, so assessment #3 ( party speaker ) is spot on.
A speaker with an MSRP of $540, in many cases sells for less than that in a box store - subtract commissions - and ALL the other cost a manufacturer like CV has to include and you see that the actual material cost is a small fraction of the street price. 15 to 20% in many cases.
So then you got to ask, what can you purchase in the way of drivers, capacitors, inductors, etc for that amount of capital...
One problem: you can not find any measured performance for this model. The 102db rating is unspecified, If we have any bets, mine would be that it is less than that - closer to 99db.
That still should be enough sensitivity, provided you have ample power.
FWIW: I use 2 DH220, and another 250 watt amplifier for my system
JandG said:
they sounded great when i hooked them up that way, but i am feeding them off my AV amp now, instead of the m-80, and the low end doesnt sound as good as it use to, hence my desire to tinker with it...
with the new AV amp, the m-80 is earmarked for a diy sub setup, but i do have another m-40 that i though would work nicely for bi amping with the cvs
Zorac said:
they sounded great when i hooked them up that way, but i am feeding them off my AV amp now, instead of the m-80, and the low end doesnt sound as good as it use to, hence my desire to tinker with it...
with the new AV amp, the m-80 is earmarked for a diy sub setup, but i do have another m-40 that i though would work nicely for bi amping with the cvs
Your HT receiver is probably crossing them over somewhere between 90Hz and 200Hz, there should be a switch or on screen option to pass full range through the main channels.
the crossover:
http://yellowobsession.com/userfiles/crossover.jpg
ive flipped the back side so its a bit easier to compare front and back.
the resistance of the speakers is as follows:
tweeter: 7.6ohm
mid: 5.7ohm
woofer: 3.0 ohm
note those are measured values so they are not the true impedance
http://yellowobsession.com/userfiles/crossover.jpg
ive flipped the back side so its a bit easier to compare front and back.
the resistance of the speakers is as follows:
tweeter: 7.6ohm
mid: 5.7ohm
woofer: 3.0 ohm
note those are measured values so they are not the true impedance
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.