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Old 7th April 2003, 06:11 AM   #11
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The problem with the Shiva versus the XLS when SL tested them was that noise from the rear of the Shiva. In a dipole you really need an open basket.

If you are thinking IB, I suspect the Adire DPL12 would be another good choice due to the really low Fs.


Steve
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Old 7th April 2003, 11:59 AM   #12
Coolin is offline Coolin  Netherlands
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Default xls=slow

Hi

I have tested the 12" xls with and without a passive radiator in about a 100 liter cabinet (german design) and fount the bass plenty but a very mushy punch to the sound. It could not keep up with the higher frequencies. Even with the crossover set to about 30 hz you could still hear it was slow.
I even used another amp but this didnt help.
Maby in a much larger volume or IB it would be better?

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Old 7th April 2003, 04:47 PM   #13
f4ier is offline f4ier  Australia
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Thanks for pointing out SL's tests. I had a look at the relevant pages and it looks like SL had tested an old model Shiva. Shiva Mk. III has different T/S parameters (but [probably] has the same basket as the old model). For the same power level, SL mentions the Shiva has lower distortion... Until power is increased to the level at which aerodynamic drag becomes apparent. Anyway, the new Shiva may/may not be better than the one SL tested. Since this is an IB setup, the noise from a driver's stamped-steel basket should be negligible. (The primary breakup of the Shiva is at 780Hz btw.)

I was refering to the sub's modulation distortion only. I don't think the sound of ~200Hz + sub bass signals from the same woofer would sound good. And at 200Hz, even when the driver units are close together, it can be a little disturbing noticing the sound jump between the mains and the woofer(s)
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Old 8th April 2003, 05:20 AM   #14
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Question jump between the mains and the woofer(s)

f4ier
> noticing the sound jump between the mains and the woofer(s)

Could you explain this?
Are you referring to where the mains and the woofer(s) are not adjacent? You would definitely want them close to each other.
Or something to do with the XO?

To return to your earlier thought, do you think that IMD is more of a problem with a bass driver?
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Old 10th April 2003, 10:19 AM   #15
f4ier is offline f4ier  Australia
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Quote:
Are you referring to where the mains and the woofer(s) are not adjacent? You would definitely want them close to each other.
Exactly. When I commented, I was assuming the mains were on the floor or at least mid-way up on pedestals when you mentioned having the IB sub up on the ceiling.

Depending on the closeness of the drivers, I would still think a sub driver operating up to 200Hz can be quite obvious. Initially I set my Shiva sub to crossover at > 100Hz and placed it right beside one of the two main bookshelf speakers. Even with the sub placed less than a foot away from one of the mains, the transition from mains to the sub was too noticeable. I had to lower the low-pass filter. Eventually I settled for a XO frequency of 50Hz and moved the sub 3m away from the nearest mains speaker (to counter my room's acoustics). Even though my bookshelf speakers have to go lower given the lower XO frequency, the "invisibility" of the sub made for a more enjoyable listening experience. And if there are some audible distortion due to the lower cutoff frequency, at least they're coming from the mains -- not from 3m away from the sub.

But given that you're planning to have stereo subs, the transition from sub to mains may/may not be so obvious as a 2.1 speaker set (at such a high cutoff frequency).

Quote:
To return to your earlier thought, do you think that IMD is more of a problem with a bass driver?
I have to admit that I haven't given this much thought. But since our ears are not so sensitive at low frequencies, I would say distortion is more apparent at higher frequencies, so I would say no.


Cheers,

Isaac
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