Accuton vs OWII / Audio Technology

[ainami]

Hello all,

I'm considering two different ideas on a smallish 2-way speaker. I would like to ask if anyone has listening experience with the following combinations:

- Audio Technology 4" Flexunits midwoofer
- Hiquphon OWII

OR

- Accuton C173-T6-90 6.5" midwoofer
- Accuton C25N-6-13 (C13-6) 1" dome tweeter


I would be planning on crossing over at around 3.5k-4k to allow for mostly a single-driver midrange spectrum. I would assume that the Hiquphon/AT combination would be much better at off-axis dispertion due to the smaller driver diamaters. However, I just don't know how they would compare to the Accutons. I have heard some comments about soft domes being a little more true with regard to how instruments sound (with the opinion that harder domes will usually give more of a sparkle to the sound).

The new Accutons would be more efficient and play louder on the same system. This might be a benefit for home theater type output.

My initial thoughts from a few years ago would be to use the Accuton C12 / C44 / C96 combination with crossover points at 1k and 4k. I think this may not be as effective as a 2-way crossed at 4k.

Thoughts?

 

[inertial]

Hi ainami,
Is it a satellite or fullrange?

4"flex-unit is the same as SF Guarnieri If I well remember.......
I am in favour of the flex-unit but the tweeter......
Have you considered a Perless HDS or other "robust" tw?
Why not a true first order filter a là Thiel?

Cheers,
Paolo

 

[ainami]

I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that I'm not worried about low frequency response because I'll be pairing these with subwoofers. They will be satellite's. That's why I'm considering the 4" AT.

 

[tinitus]

The Accuton/Thiel you mention, C173N T6 90 is a midrange and will rolloff around 150hz in closed

Have you considered that using very small drivers fore bass duty will have limited powerhandling and probably early power-compression and best fore low levels

 

[winslow]

Accuton IMO is a speaker you either love or hate. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground there. I'm not a fan of them.

 

[ainami]

The Accuton/Thiel you mention, C173N T6 90 is a midrange and will rolloff around 150hz in closed

Have you considered that using very small drivers fore bass duty will have limited powerhandling and probably early power-compression and best fore low levels

Tinitus,

After looking at this again, you are absolutely right. The T6-90 is a midrange driver (which will probably only be good down to 200Hz). There is a C173N-T6-96 that will play lower, but it has a nasty bump in the 700-2000Hz range that would be a pain:

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/ACCUTON C173N-T6-96.pdf

It looks like I would have to add a 3rd driver if I wanted a high efficiency Accuton design (C13 / T6-90 / T6-96). Otherwise, I would have to pair the C13 tweeter with an older midwoofer (like the T6-89) and lpad the tweeter for a lower efficiency.

I have heard the Avalon Acoustics products and I do like them. I suppose I will just have to make a decision and actually experiment with different drivers (if Accuton is more like an acquired taste).

 

[tinitus]

After looking at this again, you are absolutely right. The T6-90 is a midrange driver (which will probably only be good down to 200Hz). There is a C173N-T6-96 that will play lower, but it has a nasty bump in the 700-2000Hz range that would be a pain:

Its actually a bit strange mid driver as it has quite good Xmax, almost the same as its midwoofer fellow...I imagine that its intended to be possibly used without highpass xo rolling off by itself
I am not sure how it would work to xo the subs that high

 

[ainami]

I posed this question to Tony Gee at HumbleHomeMadeHifi.com since it looks like he has lots of experience with these drivers. He was gracious enough to give me permission to post his answers, so I felt it would be useful for this forum:

-------

The main sonic difference between Audio Technolgy and Accuton is that the Accuton drivers have, what they call, a much "blacker background". The Accuton drivers are extremely low on distortion, letting you hear deep into the recordings. The Audio technology drivers tend to make everything sound "nice", but less accurate. The same with the Hiquphon tweeter. This does make AT and Hiquphon easier to handle, Acctuon drivers let you hear everything, so also any imperfections in the crossover design and quality of the crossover components.

Personally I would go for a 2-way instead of 3. In this case a 3rd driver makes the system unnecessarily complex. A good 6" or 7" can handle 2-2,5kHz with no off-axis problems at all. Also, less drivers mean less crossover components, so the budget can be spent of higher quality components. If you were to use the Accuton C30N-6-24 tweeter, this can even be crossed as low as 1800Hz with a 2nd-order crossover.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=118&products_id=1343

The matching midwoofer would be the C173-T6-95, (not the C173N-T6-90 which is a midrange).
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=118&products_id=1038

An alternative with a much stonger motor, and ideal if you don't need deep bass, is the C173N-T6-96. Perfect for very compact vented enclosures.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=118&products_id=8283

If you want to use the smaller C25N-6-13, an alternative could be a 2-way using two smaller C153-T8-82 per side wired in parallel in an MTM-configuration.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=118&products_id=1344
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=118&products_id=1342

regards,
Tony Gee

 

[ainami]

I had a couple follow up questions on the C25N-6-13 / C153-T8-82 (x2) combination:

1. I like the higher efficiency of the 6-13 tweeter. If I parallel the two lower efficency T8-82 woofers together, would this boost the overall efficiency so that I won't have to reduce the tweeter with an lpad?

2. If I use this combination for a center channel, would the voicing be much different if I used the 6-24 / T6-96 combination for left/right?

-----------------------------

1. The two woofers in parallel will increase the SPL by 6dB total, 3dB due to double the cone area and 3dB due to halving the impedance, the system will be a 4 ohm system. But I expect you will still need to pad the tweeter a little, because like with any speaker the end efficiency will be lower due to baffle-step losses.

2. With crossover tuning it will be possible to give both types a similar "signature".

regards,
Tony

 

[Pan]

Its actually a bit strange mid driver as it has quite good Xmax, almost the same as its midwoofer fellow...I imagine that its intended to be possibly used without highpass xo rolling off by itself
I am not sure how it would work to xo the subs that high

Actually intended to be used with x-over as a mid with higher dynamic range than typically 5" mid's.


/Peter

 

[jb0194]

Would anyone comment on possible use of the ScanSpeak 18U Illuminator midbass as a candidate for matching with the Accuton C173N T6 90 midrange? I'd like a small footprint 3 way and hope not to have to use larger low end drivers.

 

[tinitus]

Would anyone comment on possible use of the ScanSpeak 18U Illuminator midbass as a candidate for matching with the Accuton C173N T6 90 midrange?

Dont see why not, other than different sensitivity...it would make sense to use double lluminators

Though I also think the new 6" neo Thiel must be a fantastic mid...I cant help but think that the little 2" Thiel might also be a good mate fore the Illuminator

 

[crazyhub]

Tony Gee uses two paralleled C220 (8ohm 89.6db sensitivity) an even so had to lower its C2 90T6 mid level; thus going with a C79 and two 18 illuminator should be more appropriate IMHO. Or go with two bigger woofers.

 

[cotdt]

Using the Scanspeak Illuminator as a bass only unit is such a waste! If my Scanspeak Revelators are any indication, Scanspeaks have the best midrange you can possibly get. If you're going to use the Scanspeaks, a 2-way makes much more sense.

Hard cones (Seas Excel, Accutons) have a very snappy and realistic sound, but seem to suck out some of the musicality. People either love them or hate them. If you've never heard a hard cone before, it's risky to spend so much money on them and then find yourself not liking them.

 

[tinitus]

Hard cones (Seas Excel, Accutons) have a very snappy and realistic sound, but seem to suck out some of the musicality.

My "mentor" have been saying that very thing fore many years, and never liked them although he thought they were technically superiour...until recently when he seemed to have learned how to "handle" them
Its a very big design with all Thiels, except of a Raven ribbon...and he says its surprising how the sound is like wrapped in silk

But no doubt, you need very high skills