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Old 3rd April 2003, 06:39 AM   #21
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I have absolutely no idea what is the role of impurities but very high grade pure silver sounds very clear, transparent and extended in the high end with very little perceived power in the lower registers. I wish i knew what kind of geometry, gauge, mechanical construction can result a pure silver cable with powerful and deep bass. Does such a beast exist?


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Old 3rd April 2003, 07:09 AM   #22
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Disclaimer: all threads concerning illogical assumptions, such as an extra nine in the purity of silver or gold greatly enhancing sound, are doomed.

Disclaimers aside, if cables are such a dammed hot topic, why not do away with the horrid beasts altogether and put the amp right at the speaker? Heck, build the amp INSIDE the speaker..yep, build the speaker frame out of aluminum for heatsinking ability.. even has its own forced-air supply if it's a woofer... Coaxial mounting would provide for short wire runs to the mid and tweeter.


Me, I don't see WTF is so damned hyped about silver. COME ON, IT IS BARELY MORE CONDUCTIVE THAN COPPER. Face it, it's only benifeit to sound is the placebo effect of the hugemongous price tag such wires carry. Time and time again, many such devices have failed in blinds testing.

-Oh, uh, </rant>.

Tim
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Old 3rd April 2003, 07:16 AM   #23
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Hi!

Quote:
Originally posted by ICENINE
What? Dude, electrons don't *make* tunnels in metal. The paths that electrons in a conductor move through are already present. In a conductor, there are empty molecular orbital levels that are very close in energy level to the lower full ones. When a potential difference is applied across a metal, electrons in lower orbitals are excited into the conduction bands where they are free to move. This also explains why metals are such good conductors of heat. When electrons at one end of a strip of metal are heated, the sea of electrons can easily transmit the thermal energy to the other end.

No burning in period is required. A piece of silver is a piece of silver. Running current won't change it in any way unless you plan to REALLY burn it in, and melt it or or cause an oxide layer to form on the outside, neither of which is a good thing.

Hint: irony.../HINT
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Old 3rd April 2003, 07:25 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by ICENINE
What? Dude, electrons don't *make* tunnels in metal. The paths that electrons in a conductor move through are already present.
Yeah? Y'ever hear of quantum tunneling?

Quote:
In a conductor, there are empty molecular orbital levels that are very close in energy level to the lower full ones. When a potential difference is applied across a metal, electrons in lower orbitals are excited into the conduction bands where they are free to move. This also explains why metals are such good conductors of heat. When electrons at one end of a strip of metal are heated, the sea of electrons can easily transmit the thermal energy to the other end.
Actually that's not quite true.

That works within the Drude model, but the Drude model is somewhat at odds with the QM model.

As per Pauli, no two electrons in a solid of the same spin can share the same energy level. Typical thermal and electrical processes in conductors don't add but a tiny fraction of an electron volt (eV) and since the Fermi level in typical conductors is quite high, only those electrons within a tiny fraction of an eV of the Fermi level can participate in those processes.

There aren't enough electrons participating in thermal conduction in the QM model to account for the observed thermal effects in conductors. It seems that lattice vibrations are largely responsible for thermal conductivity in metals rather than electrons.

se
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Old 3rd April 2003, 07:52 AM   #25
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Default mercury

give it a try with mercury filled silicon tubes acting as a conductor.
Since the conductor isn't solid, no discussions any more about how we have to wind the different strads into a wire.
It's a bit poisinous, but what the heck, so are most of the elco's, synthetic compound of them loudspeaker enclosures, glues used for loudspeakers, etc.

BTW: no more permanent tunnels for them electrons, it's a bit like a mud catch fight for them. They will lose quiet a bit of their energy between amp and speaker.... maybe a solution if you have kind of aggressif sounding system.

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Old 3rd April 2003, 07:54 AM   #26
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Quote:
Me, I don't see WTF is so damned hyped about silver. COME ON, IT IS BARELY MORE CONDUCTIVE THAN COPPER. Face it, it's only benifeit to sound is the placebo effect of the hugemongous price tag such wires carry. Time and time again, many such devices have failed in blinds testing.


I really feel sorry for you. A hearing impediment is the worst that can happen to a budding audiophile. On the bright side think of all the money you'll save.
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Old 3rd April 2003, 08:04 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by ICENINE
What? Dude, electrons don't *make* tunnels in metal. The paths that electrons in a conductor move through are already present. In a conductor, there are empty molecular orbital levels that are very close in energy level to the lower full ones. When a potential difference is applied across a metal, electrons in lower orbitals are excited into the conduction bands where they are free to move. This also explains why metals are such good conductors of heat. When electrons at one end of a strip of metal are heated, the sea of electrons can easily transmit the thermal energy to the other end.

No burning in period is required. A piece of silver is a piece of silver. Running current won't change it in any way unless you plan to REALLY burn it in, and melt it or or cause an oxide layer to form on the outside, neither of which is a good thing.
Not that I know that much about metals but if a crystalline copper conductor has surfaces between the crystals which may oxidize ,or whatever, would that not mean that they could need burn in? Seems perfectly likely to me. If you can hear the difference is another issue.

Quote:
Originally posted by jwb
Here is my challenge to all people who claim a wire can be directional. I'll take your wire, remove all markings and give it back to you. I make an identifying mark in one end of the cable. You must, through listening, measuring, metallurgy, x-ray crystallography, or by any means, correctly identify the direction of the cable more than 50% of the time.

So far I've pulled this stunt on two of my friends, and neither of them could do it. And I'm not the sort of person who thinks cables make no difference: both of these guys can reliably differentiate between reputable speaker cable and lamp cord.
I usually post:

http://www.jenving.se/direct.htm

They seem to be able to measure it easily. I have absolutely no problem accepting that a cable can be directional but rather expect it to be in a purely technical sense. Again, if you can hear the difference is another issue.
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Old 3rd April 2003, 12:45 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by UrSv
I usually post:
http://www.jenving.se/direct.htm
They seem to be able to measure it easily.
I wonder if they would be able to measure it so easily if they *didn't * sell it?

They go on to say: "a US high-end enthusiast / researcher,
Doug Blackburn, suggests it is possible that when audiophiles say they hear sonic changes after changing polarity (by swapping conductors at one point - not by swapping ends as with conventional directionality*) that they’ve actually heard directionality instead".

Oh, spare me, please. Has it never occurred to them that the signal is an *alternating* voltage therefore it changes it's polarity many times a second???? So are we to presume that untreated copper cables are nice to one half cycle but totally horrid to the other polarity half cycle? How can swapping the polarity of two wires have any effect on a voltage that changes polarity all by itself anyway?

Even if there was a perfect wire to be had, the whole thing would be dominated by the long length of copper wire in the crossover coils and the copper voice coil of the speaker, or maybe - horror of horrors - an aluminium voice coil.

If the dc resistance of the predominantly *copper* of the voice coil and crossover choke is 7 ohms or so, for a normal speaker cable run of 3 to 5 metres, no matter how good the cable is, a conductor diameter of more than 5mm is going to do squat.
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Old 3rd April 2003, 01:15 PM   #29
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If the dc resistance of the predominantly *copper* of the voice coil and crossover choke is 7 ohms or so, for a normal speaker cable run of 3 to 5 metres, no matter how good the cable is, a conductor diameter of more than 5mm is going to do squat.

Hi Graham,
Sure, but DC resistance is not the only arbiter.
Shunt capacitance and series inductance are the other two.
Throw this in with load dependant amplifier and reactive loudspeaker.
In my experience differing conductor materials can impart different characters in sonics that do not correlate with differences or similarities in dielectrics, construction or standard measureable characteristics.

Eric.
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Old 3rd April 2003, 01:21 PM   #30
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WELL said! I must warn you , however, that you should soon expect someone to berate your sense of hearing and then express their sorrow for your plight. Personally, within the quagmire of disparate materials, arranged non-directional as they are, when someone says they can readily hear a difference in the directionality of a few inches of silver wire, I smell something fishy. I am now waiting for an expression of sorrow and pity over my impared sense of smell!
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