Bi Wiring and AWG

[Andre Visser]

Unless the both ends of the wire are fed from different amplifiers I cannot see what the benefit of doing this, if the wire gauge is sufficient ?

For one, the optimum cable dia for low and high frequencies are different. On single run cables it is normally a compromise between the two to get optimum results.

 

[AndrewT]

Way back in 1971 all speakers were single wired, my Richard Allan Pavane were so.
I bought a pair Tannoy 385HPD to replace them and the standard crossover was also single wired. In 1977/8 (or so) I modified the standard crossover connection points to allow bi-wiring.
The results were a significant improvement compared to single cables. I then added another stereo amp, both Crimson 1704, and now heard an even bigger improvement in the sound quality.
I have passively bi-amped or tri-amped ever since.

The gains are worth having.

 

[jneutron]

Yeah, that is what I meant.

Yahbut...yahbutttt...if youze don't haves a fancy dancy high falutin peeekature, nobodee's gonna listen..

It's all in da packaging..t'aint ya neva gone clubbinnn?

Cheers, John

 

[DcibeL]

There are more factors that influence SQ than freq response, if cable make a noticable difference in FR there must be something wrong. Our ears are not very sensitive to amplitude changes anyway. Cables have an influence on low level detail, ambience and focus of soundstage.

Cables have R, L, C, and possibly shielding. That's it. L, and C affect frequency response and phase, but unless the cables are unusually long, this L and C are too small to realistically affect anything. So all we have left is R. Some amplifiers may have some problem with the capacitance in the cable if it is unusually high, but a well designed amp won't care so we're back to the frequency response.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. This topic has been beaten to death and I really don't wish to discuss it anymore than I already have.

 

[AudioFreak]

Assuming both wires are perfect, there is no difference with the signal / voltage carried on each wire. If the connection in the crossover between the bass and treble is broken so that they are now two individual circuits, the current carried on each wire will vary considerably as one wire is only loaded at the lower frequencies and the other wire is only loaded at the higher frequencies. So, yes, there is a legitimate technical reason why bi-wiring might in some situations sound better / different to single wiring.

 

[troystg]

Drivers are reactive components. They generate back EMF.

If the woofer circuit is connected to the tweeter circuit there will be interactions between the two.

If the connection between the circuits is at the speaker terminals you have x resistance between the circuits.

If the connections is at the amp terminals and bi-wire, you have x + cable resistance AND the sink / swamping / drain effects of the amplifier between the driver circuits.

Take out the amplifier effects and with bi-wiring you still have a longer path with more resistance between the woofer and tweeter circuits.

 

[troystg]

.... If the connection in the crossover between the bass and treble is broken so that they are now two individual circuits.......

All of my statements are with the "assumption" that the speaker is correctly wired for true bi-wire connection.

Most good speakers actually have separate XO brds for the different drivers.

 

[AudioFreak]

........with bi-wiring you still have a longer path with more resistance between the woofer and tweeter circuits.

The resistance between woofer and tweeter is of little relevance. What matters is between woofer and amplifier, and between tweeter and amplifier.

 

[AndrewT]

The resistance between woofer and tweeter is of little relevance. What matters is between woofer and amplifier, and between tweeter and amplifier.

I disagree.
The line resistance of the bi-wire followed by the output impedance of the amplifier and then the line resistance back to the other half of the crossover will attenuate the back EMF more than a single wired arrangement.
If the back EMF is a suddenly stopping transient then much of this pulse is of HF content and will drive the tweeter.
The more attenuation the better in my view, except that I still stick with short cables.

 

[Andre Visser]

....except that I still stick with short cables.

I agree, the best cable is no cable.

 

[Andre Visser]

Cables have R, L, C, and possibly shielding. That's it. L, and C affect frequency response and phase, but unless the cables are unusually long, this L and C are too small to realistically affect anything. So all we have left is R. Some amplifiers may have some problem with the capacitance in the cable if it is unusually high, but a well designed amp won't care so we're back to the frequency response.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. This topic has been beaten to death and I really don't wish to discuss it anymore than I already have.

I'm not so sure that R,L,C are the only factors at play, however if you consider what small signals are involved to influence ambience for example, then perhaps these are also more relevant than believed by some.

 

[jneutron]

I'm not so sure that R,L,C are the only factors at play, however if you consider what small signals are involved to influence ambience for example, then perhaps these are also more relevant than believed by some.

I believe R, L, and C are the only factors at play. However, I agree with the latter half of your statement entirely.

Cheers, John

 

[troystg]

bi/tri-AMP with amps ON the speaker cabinet.




EDIT:

Currently working on a bi-amp active speakers with servo control on the woofers.