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Old 4th November 2008, 08:04 AM   #231
Oris is offline Oris  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally posted by Variac
This disagreement between Gerner and Bert doesn't belong here. We don't like arguments that spill over from over forums or even "real Life" as we have no way or interest in judging who is at fault, if anyone. Any more accusations will be punished.
I absolutely agree that accusations do not belong on any public forums, even more if these are not the truth...

Please allow me to respond to Gerner's last allegations with a quote from my writings to 6moons for background information being different than mentioned by Gerner and being different than the actual publication at 6moons proudly spread by Gerner himself to all his friends and contacts before I had any change to respond to that publication beforehand.

Quote:
Document with background information send by me to 6Moons

The Oris Swing MkII system is originally a custom designed and build system for Gerner Christensen. This system is based on many years of experience of both Bert and Gerner trying to create the most accurate sound with the least compromise, good functionality and great looks.

Gerner (DIY-er for many years) was building his loudspeaker systems rather differently than Bertís philosophy where both were seeking for the holy grail. Being friends with Steen Duelund for many years helped Gerner to learn all about loudspeaker crossover techniques (rather different than commonly used) where phase coherence and the whole acting as a point source is the key to success. Using full-range drivers is for most people giving just that which for them compromises the faults these drivers have.

Bertís philosophy is basically the same but then wanting to have a very high sensitivity and dispersion control on top of that. Not to play as loud as possible but to grab all the details, create perfect imaging and maximal dynamics to recreate reality instead of a dull sound giving a fuzzy illusion of the recording.

Using full-range drivers is not good enough anymore for Bert, too many limitations in both the low- and high frequencies so it was necessary to use multiple drivers and this is where Gernerís crossover techniques and Bertís philosophy came together.


Quote:
Temporarily part of the publication at 6Moons

Even though BD Design is a Dutch manufacturer, Gerner Christensen as we shall see is quite involved with certain key BD Design model evolutions. And he does make Serbia his home. He would be my co-host on this tour for a day. Or as Gerner put it: "Now Nenad, Solaja and I have to shuffle the cards a bit for the sake of the whole arrangement here in Belgrade. You will learn from Bert Doppenberg that these speakers of mine, which have now been commercialized via agreement by BD Design, were from the beginning my own idea from A to Z. I customized the speakers to optimize filtering and time alignment issues and added some more good speaker cabinet medicine. This created a close working collaboration between Bert and I which took 4 years due to the long physical distance separating us. My speaker building career has lasted almost 40 years and hundreds of models were designed and made by my own hands. Nowadays I don't have a big workshop as I did when I lived in Denmark. Therefore I'm forced to outsource all machining and tooling. And yes, I'm Danish and know all the guys up there."

The above publication forced me to call 6moons and asked them to change the facts and gave them several suggestions (agreed with Gerner as he before agreed with the information send to 6moons!) but 6Moons could not change simply because the visit to Gerner would then not have been appropriate as part of the Serbian Tour where Serbian manufacturers were going to be reviewed.

So 6moons' visit to Gerner was canceled and the publication was removed.

I do not know what hurts the most but in a way I am glad that I did not get that review in 6moons which would then have been based on wrong assumptions.

Bert
 
Old 4th November 2008, 08:18 AM   #232
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShinOBIWAN


/Yawn/

Its almost as if you threw that in there just so I'd notice you. Your less than worthless opinion is noted.

Now go embarrass yourself in front of someone else.

so - I previously meant that you just have lack of sense for humor ;

now is obvious (just now - at least to me , because I didn't frequent thread about your certainly gorgeous speakers ) that you lack few other things .
politeness ?

ring a bell ?
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Old 4th November 2008, 08:29 AM   #233
Oris is offline Oris  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally posted by gerner

Guys like Bert and me invested quite some time to conclude, yes it can work perfectly well and on top offer point source wide freq usage. Meassuring it to death........just for fun I think, as it was always our ears that told us what to look after to get it on spot.

A thing that I'm sure both Bert and I agree 100% on.

I think you should start talking less about me, about the Swings, about yourself and what we "both" did as 99% of the measuring work and tweaks applied to the BMS drivers and Swings were done by me, I only showed you progress by email as my friend or should I say customer...

You only have heard 3 versions of the >50 versions tried.

Puhh..

Please shut up and stop promoting yourself.

Bert
 
Old 4th November 2008, 09:20 AM   #234
poptart is offline poptart  Canada
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Wow you go away for a couple days and look what happens.

Let me say for the record I have absolutely no interest in "copying" the swing. It was Gerner that first mentioned this idea by stating that it couldn't be done. Nobody was planning to try, but that statement caught the attention of many of us who believe speakers are a science not a religion. I do not believe in magic, anything going on inside the speaker can be understood and quantified. This idea that asking for measurements is so we can "copy" the speaker shows a complete lack of understanding about speaker design. You can not copy a speaker from it's measurements any more than you can build a BMW just because you find it's it 0-60 time and gas mileage data. Ridiculous. It also shows a lot of arrogance that you automatically assume everyone wants to copy your speaker. Frankly my first impression was that they're just another bunch of audiophile BS but I was trying to be polite and at least look at the measurements first to see if it was designed with any science at all or if it's all "extreme caps", fancy wiring, and other audiophile voodoo.
 

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