Cheap ways to get 98-100DB over 2.5Khz

tech.knockout · 2nd November 2008, 08:11 AM

Right now the closest contender is the Peerless 811647 HDT 100 horn loaded dome tweeter. http://www.d-s-t.com.au/data/Peerless/811647.pdf

It is a good product for the low price, but it may or may not break if the DIY party speakers were played to 120Db, which corresponds to 100W system power. This is the maximum rated power for the Peerless, which is basically a tricked up hi-fi dome tweeter. How do ordinary dome tweeters hold up near maximum rated continuous system power?

The plus for the Peerless is that it is an established brand so it cant sound bad (if not good), and soft dome tweeters have smoother response and inoffensive (im guessing). At least compared to a cheap no name titanium compression driver at the electronics shop.

Any other solutions I may not have thought yet (DIY or ready made)?

Dr.EM · 2nd November 2008, 09:59 AM

Providing you've got clean power up to and beyond 100W, so your not ever feeding a clipped signal, then it should be fine. The crossover will limit the power effectively going to the tweeter, where the woofer may be using 100W the content above 2.5khz may only require an average of 10W-20W, peaks may be of 100W but these arn't an issue here

The baffle step will also make the tweeter louder than the woofers in effect, by 6db, then the tweter requires only 1/4 of the power because of this alone. Unless your woofer is 106db efficient and you won't be using a pad on the tweeter?

RobWells · 2nd November 2008, 10:01 AM

120 dB from a tweeter ? - ouch!

Maybe take a look at horns / compression drivers.

Rob.

Dr.EM · 2nd November 2008, 10:04 AM

Surely not wanting 120dB of treble power!? I presumed the question meant an SPL of 120db overall and would the tweeter cope in such an application which I believe it would. 120dB of treble, ouch indeed

tech.knockout · 2nd November 2008, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr.EM
Providing you've got clean power up to and beyond 100W, so your not ever feeding a clipped signal, then it should be fine. The crossover will limit the power effectively going to the tweeter, where the woofer may be using 100W the content above 2.5khz may only require an average of 10W-20W, peaks may be of 100W but these arn't an issue here

The baffle step will also make the tweeter louder than the woofers in effect, by 6db, then the tweter requires only 1/4 of the power because of this alone. Unless your woofer is 106db efficient and you won't be using a pad on the tweeter?

The speaker in my head would be 70cm wide dipole(18" woofer), and its shoved near a wall. So I don't think i need baffle step compensation, I'm not aiming for perfection. Of course, I was referring to 120Db system.

Im not sure if you are aware, but the 100W rating already takes assumes the tweeter is crossovered. The tweeter is probably 15-20W by itself. Is it still fine? Has anyone run 100W through their 2 way hi-fi systems and not a hitch?

Quote:

Originally posted by RobWells
Maybe take a look at horns / compression drivers.

They get very expensive, if from a trusted/quality brand. Otherwise a cheap unknown compression driver from the local electronics chain (Altronics).

inertial · 2nd November 2008, 11:55 AM

Hi ,

I am not sure for the 120 dB, it is really a dangerous level

Anyway have you thinked to HI-VI RT2 PRO ( planar)?

Cheers,,
Paolo

BHTX · 2nd November 2008, 06:10 PM

With the existence of compression drivers, it'd be absolutely ridiculous to even consider "hi-fi" tweeters for this design IMO. You probably think they don't sound as good because you've never heard one implemented correctly. Most diffraction horns sound awful IMO, and this is pretty much always how they're used in high output professional loudspeaker systems. If used correctly in a design for personal use, they can easily beat the pants off any little inefficient tweeter toys out there in every aspect. Whenever you're interested in coming up with any loudspeaker system.. instead of using a compression driver because you think you have to, try to base the design on the fact that you WILL use a compression driver, always. It works!.. IF done correctly, which is extremely critical.

brucemck2 · 2nd November 2008, 06:34 PM

Paolo, how does that Hi-Vi RT2 sound? Could you compare it with a Fountek Pro5i?

inertial · 2nd November 2008, 06:41 PM

I'm sorry ,I have not tried it. Just read the Hi-vi datasheet and simulated in my x-over simulator.
From the data looks interesting IMO and good price

Cheers,

Paolo

mwmkravchenko · 2nd November 2008, 10:33 PM

THe old Motorola KSN 1177 was a dual piezo element design I used to use. It was 100 db per watt.

Mark

2nd November 2008, 08:11 AM	#1
tech.knockout diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Parra, Sydney	Cheap ways to get 98-100DB over 2.5Khz Right now the closest contender is the Peerless 811647 HDT 100 horn loaded dome tweeter. http://www.d-s-t.com.au/data/Peerless/811647.pdf It is a good product for the low price, but it may or may not break if the DIY party speakers were played to 120Db, which corresponds to 100W system power. This is the maximum rated power for the Peerless, which is basically a tricked up hi-fi dome tweeter. How do ordinary dome tweeters hold up near maximum rated continuous system power? The plus for the Peerless is that it is an established brand so it cant sound bad (if not good), and soft dome tweeters have smoother response and inoffensive (im guessing). At least compared to a cheap no name titanium compression driver at the electronics shop. Any other solutions I may not have thought yet (DIY or ready made)?

2nd November 2008, 10:33 PM	#10
mwmkravchenko diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Perth Canada	Loud tweeter! THe old Motorola KSN 1177 was a dual piezo element design I used to use. It was 100 db per watt. Mark __________________ Mark

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2nd November 2008, 09:59 AM	#2
Dr.EM diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Swindon	Providing you've got clean power up to and beyond 100W, so your not ever feeding a clipped signal, then it should be fine. The crossover will limit the power effectively going to the tweeter, where the woofer may be using 100W the content above 2.5khz may only require an average of 10W-20W, peaks may be of 100W but these arn't an issue here The baffle step will also make the tweeter louder than the woofers in effect, by 6db, then the tweter requires only 1/4 of the power because of this alone. Unless your woofer is 106db efficient and you won't be using a pad on the tweeter?

2nd November 2008, 10:01 AM	#3
RobWells diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: UK	120 dB from a tweeter ? - ouch! Maybe take a look at horns / compression drivers. Rob.

2nd November 2008, 10:04 AM	#4
Dr.EM diyAudio Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Swindon	Surely not wanting 120dB of treble power!? I presumed the question meant an SPL of 120db overall and would the tweeter cope in such an application which I believe it would. 120dB of treble, ouch indeed

2nd November 2008, 11:55 AM	#6
inertial diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Italy	Hi , I am not sure for the 120 dB, it is really a dangerous level Anyway have you thinked to HI-VI RT2 PRO ( planar)? Cheers,, Paolo

2nd November 2008, 06:10 PM	#7
BHTX diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2006	With the existence of compression drivers, it'd be absolutely ridiculous to even consider "hi-fi" tweeters for this design IMO. You probably think they don't sound as good because you've never heard one implemented correctly. Most diffraction horns sound awful IMO, and this is pretty much always how they're used in high output professional loudspeaker systems. If used correctly in a design for personal use, they can easily beat the pants off any little inefficient tweeter toys out there in every aspect. Whenever you're interested in coming up with any loudspeaker system.. instead of using a compression driver because you think you have to, try to base the design on the fact that you WILL use a compression driver, always. It works!.. IF done correctly, which is extremely critical.

2nd November 2008, 06:34 PM	#8
brucemck2 diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2005	Paolo, how does that Hi-Vi RT2 sound? Could you compare it with a Fountek Pro5i?

2nd November 2008, 06:41 PM	#9
inertial diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Italy	I'm sorry ,I have not tried it. Just read the Hi-vi datasheet and simulated in my x-over simulator. From the data looks interesting IMO and good price Cheers, Paolo

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