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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 20th October 2008, 02:10 AM   #21
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You might want to go over to the Parts Express forum and read up on the missing ferrofluid issue in the RS28a tweeter. Might change the specs from those published.
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Old 20th October 2008, 02:43 AM   #22
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Sadly... Using the handy crossover calculator is going to give the same type of crossover as the OP selected in his first post i.e. ready made 3 way Xover, just diffent frequencies.
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Old 20th October 2008, 02:58 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by infinia
Sadly... Using the handy crossover calculator is going to give the same type of crossover as the OP selected in his first post i.e. ready made 3 way Xover, just diffent frequencies.

That's not necessarily true. Using that calc and the impedance plots for the individual drivers will give as accurate results as can be had without measuring the drivers. I have seen published designs that use the drivers nominal impedance for filters and Zobel. How bad do they sound?
You need to make use of the tools available and put into play your knowledge. N10 is just starting out and he doesn't have all of the facts yet but is enthusiastic about building.
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Old 20th October 2008, 03:08 AM   #24
N10 is offline N10  United Kingdom
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Default Different tweeter...options

Alright, these are "super tweeters" but they are 8 ohms, and cover the frequency ranges needed.

Here is what I came up with.

1. Pyle Pro PDBT38 Titanium Super Tweeter
2. Pioneer AHE60-51F 3-1/2" Horn Tweeter
3.Selenium ST350 Super Tweeter

The SPL's are higher then the mid/woofer, will that be a problem?

As far as what I want out of this system. I want decent sound, nice bass response and to learn as much as I can, that's probably the most important. I agree with not building a kit, I don't think I'd learn much...I built my own computer from scratch, I'd like to think I could tough out a speaker system...half the fun of DIYing is in the trial and error. I'm not afraid to fail, or to get a little confused. I'm over my head already and I'm loving it.
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Old 20th October 2008, 03:42 AM   #25
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Excellent attitude!

Those tweeters are too efficient - to high SPL. Find a reasonably priced 3/4" dome with SPL 90 or less. Remember, you are trying to match everything up here.
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Old 20th October 2008, 03:48 AM   #26
janusz is offline janusz  Australia
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Default 3 way

Hi N10,

Without necessary equipment and experience it is difficult to build quality passive crossovers. It is much easier to use active crossovers at the expense of more PAs but in domestic workshop environment you will get much better results.

Secondly, I'd go for a better midrange driver such as audax hm130co. It's also best if all drivers should have roughly the same sensitivity to avoid attenuation circuits. I bought my hm130cos as temporary drivers and have been surprised by their quality. I measured them having 90.5dB at 2m at 1kHz at 2.83V boxed.

For midranges I always choose spherical enclosures due to best linearity oferred. They are much easier to built than one would intuitively expect. There are two basic approaches.
1. you build a normal box but fill that inn with layers of high density polymers used to pack heavy but fragile objects. Using cutters and coarse sand papers you shape them to have an internal spherical shape. The sphere has to be internal to the driver. The other approach is to buy a rubber ball (kids play that) of proper size. You cut one side to make it match perfetly with the driver cut out, put that in the box, glue it to the cut out and fill in the external parts of a box with wood chips mixed with plaster and water of course. Once dry you eal the box'es top/side cover and you have a perfect spherical enclosure.
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Old 20th October 2008, 04:56 AM   #27
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193
Here is an example of a vented box for this woofer. Box volume is 100 litres or about 3.6 cubic feet. This is a fairly large box, but it is nearly ideal for this driver. Response goes down to ~30Hz.
Hi
Your example is quite a bit larger than an EBS design i.e. 80 liters 33 Hz?


IMO... I'd shoot for 70-80 liters tuned at 30Hz the bass should be tighter (dry) shows much better group delay at the expense of a few Hz extension. Since there is no Q for 4th order BR look at GD. Getting the lowest frequency response from a speaker is highly overrated for music.
Just another man's opinion.
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Old 20th October 2008, 05:14 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by infinia

Low frequency response is highly overrated for music.
Just another man's opinion.

Depends on what your musical tastes are. Much modern music doesn't sound good without adequate low bass.

I was just trying to show N10 the ropes. Yes, there are other viable options for that driver. Better yet there are other drivers that will give better results. It's all a matter of what you want.


Quote:
Originally posted by janusz

It's also best if all drivers should have roughly the same sensitivity
It's nice if you can pick up some baffle step correction with a higher efficiency woofer. 3-4db is good.
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Old 20th October 2008, 05:22 AM   #29
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Sorry I think your help is good. The OP picked a pretty good eff. woofer for the price. I don't think we could do much better in that regard. Just trying to give you a nudge.. I think he is looking for Hi-Q bass is all I'm saying really.
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Old 20th October 2008, 06:42 AM   #30
janusz is offline janusz  Australia
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Default sound quality and speakers

Hi John and audio lovers,

In times when I used to build audio equipment I arrived at about 2dB difference between midrange and woofer being close to optimum. Tests done with musicians were responsible for choosing that figure. That stayed in my memory since then. Four dB seems to me a bit high as a starting point but I may be wrong.

One more comment. although it is known to all more or less experienced speaker builders but not necessarily to beginners is that the quality of the midrange driver is crucial for the quality of the system. It does not imply that the other drivers can be poor but simply our hearing is most sensitive and discerning when it comes to human voice and secondly, other sounds covering that frequency at which our hearing is most sensitive.

When we did tests (AB and ABC blind tests) with panels of musicians to identify priorities and quality of audio sources and choose best drivers the importance of midrange (roughly 300-500Hz to 4-5kHz) stood out. Among other things they were comparing their own live performances - vocals and classical instruments with recordings of these. The only truly valid subjective test in my opinion.

Nevertheless there is one problem. Our brains do not work and interprete external sources (sound, light etc) exactly the same way so even musicians differed in their choice of the most faithful speaker drivers.

The good side is that, if not too old, musicians are capable of picking up tiny differences other people are not capable off noticing at all.

As a matter of fact our blind tests showed that most people cannot tell apart most amplifiers and preamplifiers - provided that the quality of equipment does not differ vary much using electronic measurements. The easiest to tell apart were speaker systems, then cartridge-arm combinations but cartridges came first etc.

All these tests were done before CD players became worth of listenning to.

cheers,
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