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-   -   Orions sound great because dipole? (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/131529-orions-sound-great-because-dipole.html)

sendler 17th October 2008 05:14 PM

Orions sound great because dipole?
 
The Orions continue to get raves wherever they go. They must be fantastic. I often wonder if the reason they are so good is because they are dipoles, or could it be that active cross sounds much better with no components between the amps and the drivers and better caps and resistors doing the work. (I already know this to be true and even more so for digital sources with a DCX2496 where the work load of the electronics is shared all the way back to the digital domaign.) Or is it the gobs of clean power from triamping. (I know that biamping a passive cross speaker sounds better) Or is it the great tweeter crossed really low. Or is it the great mid. Or is the great bass from using 4 top of the line 12s. I am sure that SL is very happy with the performance of the Orions and rightly so. They are on the short list of the worlds greatest speakers at any cost. And, that he would feel no need to prove the sonic merits of dipoles further to anyone. But it would be fascinating to build the same drivers into a conventional, sealed cabinet with active cross for a direct comparison.

goskers 17th October 2008 05:53 PM

Scott,

There are variants out there using the same or very similar driver set; Joseph Audio, Selah and many others.

Being a former orion owner (twice) I would venture out to say that the answer to your question of what makes them so good would be the combination of all variables. As we all know, design is a myriad of decisions trying to limit downsides and utilize upsides. The main thing that I would say makes designs such as the orion so successful is the fact that room interaction is considered. This seems to be a key factor which many companies and listeners overlook.

I have now sold my set because of a recent move as well as the fact that I have found what I have been looking for, finally. Listening to many different systems and returning to the orion's has always left me with the same easy feeling. Other systems may often do one thing or another well but never seemed to do everything good.

analog_sa 17th October 2008 07:06 PM

It seems the majority of listeners adore the sound of cheap opamps. Could this be another reason for the Orion's success?

On a philosophical/psychological level i see the advantages of this approach - it completely obliterates any neurosis regarding amplifiers, preamplifiers, sources or cables, tubes or solid state.

Maybe the Orions are more than just speakers. The audiophile's good mental health companion?

Drew Eckhardt 17th October 2008 07:09 PM

Re: Orions sound great because dipole?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sendler
The Orions continue to get raves wherever they go. They must be fantastic. I often wonder if the reason they are so good is because they are dipoles, or could it be that active cross sounds much better with no components between the amps and the drivers and better caps and resistors doing the work.
Having built both Orions and Plutos, owned conventional bipoles, and listened to dipole planars I'd speculate that it's mostly more uniform polar/power response that looks a lot like on-axis response combined with decreased cabinet effects like internal reflections and panel resonances.

If you sit centered between a pair of Plutos that are close, ignore the frequency extremes, and limit the output levels to less than realistic they're surprisingly close.

The Orion's more controlled dispersion makes them much less sensitive to object/wall placement at the sides and lets you create a wide sweet spot by countering a shorter arrival time from the nearer speaker with a level reduction from its directivity. Obviously, the extra displacement lets you enjoy music that's not a scale model of the real thing. The exceptional drivers are just icing on the cake.

I'll probably try a wave guide after I finish my sub-woofer project.

goskers 17th October 2008 07:40 PM

I hate to get into a war over op amps and the like but I find it hard to believe that the weakest link in anyones system is an opamp which measures very well with regards to noise and distortion through the passband.

It is all subjective I guess, right? ;)

serenechaos 17th October 2008 11:49 PM

Some people like Orions (and other dipoles) because they put everything in what my wife calls "soft focus" and that "bouncing aroung the room sound."
Not everyone gives them rave reviews though, after listening to a few hundred speakers @ RMAF I wouldn't rate them anywhere near the top...
The out of phase sound bouncing off rear wall, combining with the sound from the front of the driver, after a time delay, makes a very noticablely fuzzy smeared sound, like extra reverb was added on top of what was in the original recording.
Hence, the "soft focus," that loses detail.
That some people like, and "rave" about,
and some people read, and repeat...
Personally I was very dissapointed, and like my wife said, you can't hear things anymore on recordings you know well--
This makes for a zero WAF in my house.

critofur 18th October 2008 12:14 AM

Some things that I'm sure contribute to the Orions: excellent quality, expensive drivers, and, they are designed by a veteran expert in the audio field.

Ok, for those of you that have found other speakers that you like better than Orions, could you please mention WHICH speakers those are? And describe the things that you like about them/contrast them to other models of speakers?

Russell Dawkins 18th October 2008 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by goskers
I have now sold my set because of a recent move as well as the fact that I have found what I have been looking for, finally. [/B]

You really have piqued my curiosity, Goskers. What did you find?!

Will 18th October 2008 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Russell Dawkins



You really have piqued my curiosity, Goskers. What did you find?!


No point asking actually. I seen several instances where absolute accuracy in reproduction is viewed boring. Some rather go with ancient Saba or Altec 604 in OB baffle as they provide more musical coloration that soothes the ears. The Orions uses OPAMPS (big no no in audio land) and also Solid State Amp (also another debatable topic).

I'd sure like to see someone's effort to convert all the opamps in the preamp to use jfets (supposedly sounding very musical) and also using SET for the mids and highs ;)

cheers.

tktran303 18th October 2008 01:57 AM

Some people adore electrostats, some people don't like them...

Whether you like or dislike the presentation of a dynamic dipole like the Orion++, NaO 2T, Steinway Lyngdorf Model D, Jamo R909 is hard to argue with. For me the natural and open spaciousness of the presentation is definite plus enhancing the illusion of being there.

All this talk of pinpoint imaging, ultra detail and microdynamics, airy highs, depth of soundstage la da da. I wonder, does it actually exist in real live music. etc.

I recently heard Angela Hewitt in our state capital city's Concert Hall and the sound is nothing like conventional hifi. Closing my eyes, the sound is mono, near omnidirectional, with what sounds like nothing above 10Khz or below 50Hz, yet still glorious.


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