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Old 18th October 2008, 02:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by tktran303
All this talk of pinpoint imaging, ultra detail and microdynamics, airy highs, depth of soundstage la da da. I wonder, does it actually exist in real live music. etc.

I think it all comes down to personal preference and listening material, or at least what you expect out of your source material, be it accurate or not.

However, I do think that "ultra detail and microdynamics, airy highs, depth of soundstage la da da" do have a belonging, because although the performance might not have contained such qualities, it's still important for the loudspeakers to be able to replicate the source as accurately as possible across the gamut of audible soundscape.

On the other hand, if you look at it from a perspective of logic; you aren't going to be looking at building or purchasing a set of speakers that will ring up a bill into the possible thousands if you avidly listen to music you *know* sounds crappy. That would make just about as much sense as snagging some tickets to a first-rate orchestration, then wearing earplugs for the whole show.
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Old 18th October 2008, 03:51 AM   #12
goskers is offline goskers  United States
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For the gentleman that asked what I found that got me off of the orion's need not look a whole lot further than a Dr. that has been very popular on this forum as of late. Geddes and Linkwitz are both well respected in the field. I personally found Geddes' system much more to my liking once I heard it.

I am still waiting to see someone prove that opamps are the weak link in their audio system.
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Old 18th October 2008, 12:00 PM   #13
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The "reverb effect" mentioned earlier is only a factor if the Orions are placed fairly close to the front wall.

Problem is, in 99% of houses, that's where speakers will be placed to fit in with the decor.

Its one thing to have the perfect speaker in theory, another to have one that fits into real world environments, and that has always been the reason I haven't gone dipole.

I think that's why they have never, and will never, be a popular choice, just like big horns won't. I'm curious about them, but just don't have the space to consider them an option.

Also, I have hunch that those who love dipoles are classical music buffs, whereas pop/rock fans prefer monopoles.
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Old 18th October 2008, 02:50 PM   #14
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Reading this thread reminds me of this quote: "The shoe that fits one person pinches another; there is no recipe for living that suits all cases." - Carl G. Jung
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Old 18th October 2008, 03:15 PM   #15
AJinFLA is offline AJinFLA  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by analog_sa
It seems the majority of listeners adore the sound of cheap opamps.
Like the ones 99.9% of recorded media passed through? Modern ones have no negative effect on soundwaves, but seem to have a rather adverse effect on brainwaves. Given prior knowledge of course.

Quote:
Originally posted by analog_sa
The audiophile's good mental health companion?
"Audiophiles" and "good mental health" in the same sentence??

Quote:
Originally posted by critofur

Ok, for those of you that have found other speakers that you like better than Orions, could you please mention WHICH speakers those are? And describe the things that you like about them/contrast them to other models of speakers?
I think serenechaos has already stated which speakers driven by what amplification meet his standards of clear and realistic reproduction of recorded musical events.

cheers,

AJ
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Old 18th October 2008, 03:54 PM   #16
Helmuth is offline Helmuth  Netherlands
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I have colleague how build their own Esl's.

A esl midrange is the best airy sounding their is IMO.

Also I have listened to final esl 1.2 and the 1.4 standing next to each other.
Click the image to open in full size.


The mann of Final Maarten Smeets I spoke once about audio and said about speaker boxes. "They sound like it comes out of a box".

That is the nature of a rectangle shape and standing waves inside. whitch colour the sound.

Personal I think also the reflected sound on the back side ads to a more open effect.

And what Linkwitz shows the sound on the sides is reduced due their out of phase. So the dipole doesn't have the negative room reflections on their side.

Every snare instrument is a dipole so a dipole is the best way to reproduce that character IMO.

Like a horn the best way to reproduce voices and horn instrument like a trumpet IMO.
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Old 19th October 2008, 03:30 PM   #17
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Hi Dave,

How close do your speakers have to be to the front and side walls?

regards,
Thanh
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Old 19th October 2008, 05:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by AJinFLA

I think serenechaos has already stated which speakers driven by what amplification meet his standards of clear and realistic reproduction of recorded musical events.
cheers,
AJ
That's dated, and WAY out of context...
Read the rest of the thread, or at least four post up...
The amp remarks were an answer to how much power was needed for a specific speaker, the Austin A166, which that thread was about, and the FE166ES-R driver.
MP9 ask if a 2A3 or 45 would be enough to power it...

The year and a half old post was again specific to comparing drivers in OB to the same driver in boxes.
After break-in, and figuring out room placement, the Super Swan configuration has gotten a lot better.
These are just two of my personal speakers, and I'd deem them fair; but with a lot of problems, not my opinion of what "meet my standards of clear and realistic reproduction of recorded musical events."
The best I've heard is Jeffery Jackson's five-way horn system and 75TL amp I heard @ VSAC.
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Old 19th October 2008, 07:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by tktran303
Hi Dave,

How close do your speakers have to be to the front and side walls?

regards,
Thanh
G'day Thanh

Within 50cm to the front of the baffle
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Old 23rd October 2008, 01:03 AM   #20
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Hi David,

At the end of the day I don't think everyone enjoys the same thing. I don't think ESLs or dynamic dipoles are for everybody.

Certainly you need a good distance between the baffle and the wall behind the speakers. I have about 5' behind my baffle, any more and I get into trouble. But this is not different to box speakers too, because IMHO the midrange of box speakers sound the best when well clear of the front wall. My last box speaker was 4' from the front wall and it sounded much better there.

An unexpected upside of dipoles is that they may be placed closer to side walls. I suspect this has something to do with what Drew said in another thread about the nulls at 90 degrees.

Have you ever had a chance to move your Delta speakers at least 1.2-1.5 meters into the room? Then move your seat back and had a good listen, know when no-one else is home, no birds/dog/kids/neighbours etc to bother you.

Regarding the music selection, I don't think dynamic dipoles suffer the same issues that affect ESLs. I certainly don't limit what I play. I listen to full symphony orchestras, light jazz trios, acapellas, rock, pop, Fabric/Twilo style club music, music from around the world, and everything in between.

I'll try and get Squeezecenter to churn out a HTML list of the tracks that get played by everyone at home. Although I'm classical trained, when people ask

"What do you play?",

I say

"The CD player"

Most of what I play is actually NOT classical...

Last month we were rockin' to Guitar Hero III on the Wii.
Now that was fun...
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