Question regarding speaker selection and sensitivity

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Helmuth

Helmuth

Member
Joined 2008
TD12X-front.png


No real sub bass TD12X but they look as very nice drivers. 94,6dB 1w mtr. simulation -3db 52Hz.
Read philosophy behind these drivers.

aespeakers

(My tip for cp22 is not a good choice because of the small of off axes response. 40 degrees dispersion.)
 

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S

sreten

R.I.P.
Joined 2003
NorCalAudio said:


Currently I am looking at midranges that have sensitivity
parameters in the high 90's and I found what seems to
be a nice tweeter at 101dB.

Pat
Click to expand...


Hi,

Why ? midband sensitivity will be ~ 4-5dB less than the bass
driver or 1-2dB more than one driver of a bass pair in parallel.

Bass sensistivity determines how much bass you get for box size.

look at the designs here :

http://www.rjbaudio.com/projects.html

With a target of say a genuine 89-90dB/W midrange, that is the same
with your amplifier as using most of these designs with ~ 150 - 250 W.

Unless you are a headbanger you do not need extreme senstivity.
(you might with a flea powered amplifier, i.e. < ~ 5 watts.)

:)/sreten.
 
N

NorCalAudio

Member
Joined 2008
First off I wish to thank anyone who chimed in and provided input on driver selection. Those Humble Statements are awesome as I know the Andromeda's were. But in the end I don't want to build someone's design even if I know they turned out better than my first attempts will turn out. I am really looking forward to moving into the design and development of the cabinets and crossovers. I appreciate all types of criticism here as well as recommendations.

Here is what I have for Drivers. I have decided that a two way design will probably be the right choice for the amp / pre-amp etc. A 3-way design would also work, but getting the correct drivers and crossovers for a 3-way design will be north of challenging. I think with the choice of drivers below and the right crossovers I will hit my mark.

I want to go with the AE Speakers TD12X- 8ohm. I will use two of these per speaker and would use one of their passive Radiators PR15-700 in each box. I am hoping that this would cover the lows and Mids provided the correct crossover points have been developed.

For the highs I want to go with a NeoPro 5i Ribbon Tweeter. I like the look of this and it seems that it will provide great performance.

The specs for each of these are below.

TD12X- 8ohm
Fs: 34 Hz
Qms: 2.93
Qes: 0.31
Qts: 0.28
Vas: 160 Liters
Cms: 0.4 mm/N
Mms: 55 grams
Sd: 530 cm2
Rms: 4 Kg/S
Bl: 16.4 T/m
Re: 7.2 ohms
Z: 8 ohms
Le: 0.3 mH
Pe (max): 500 Watts
Pe (transient): 1000 Watts
1WSpl 94.9 dB
Linear Xmax 14 mm (peak)
Mech Xsus 18 mm (peak)

PR15-700
Fs (Hz) 6
Qms 42.43
VAS (ltrs) 978
Mms (g) 700
Cms (mm/N) 1.0
Sd (cm²) 830
Xmax (in) 2" p-p

NeoPro5i Ribbon Tweeter
Ribbon material Enforced sandwich
Ribbon mass 88mg
Ribbon dimension 15mmX145mmX0.02mm
Ribbon area 2175square millimeters
Gap flux 1 Tesla
Gap height 5mm
Impedance 7Ohm
DCR 0.02 ohm
Sensitivity 102dB/2.83V@1M
Frequency response 8,50~40,000Hz
Resonance frequency 400Hz
Power handling 60W Normal, 120W Max
Recommended crossover frequency 1,500Hz / 2nd-Order

Thanks and lets have it,

Pat
 
N

NorCalAudio

Member
Joined 2008
Once I place the order for the drivers/tweeters, etc. I am going to consider it "In Production" haha. I want to first make sure I have the drivers down. I am actually glad I am going with a 2-way. I usually bite off way more than I can chew and then work double time to develop enough knowledge to git er done.

I will make sure that I post all the details on my website.

Pat
 
S

simon5

Member
Joined 2004
NorCalAudio said:
I want to go with the AE Speakers TD12X- 8ohm. I will use two of these per speaker and would use one of their passive Radiators PR15-700 in each box. I am hoping that this would cover the lows and Mids provided the correct crossover points have been developed.

[...]

Thanks and lets have it,

Pat
Click to expand...

Hi,

To better match your NeoPro 5i, why not go directly with the TD15M ? Better high frequency response, it will allow an easier crossover design and more flexibility in the crossover frequency.

Less deep bass, but with a passive radiator and a large enough box, you will be OK.

http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1641

Parameters :

TD15M - 8ohm
Fs: 34.7Hz
Qms: 5.09
Vas: 312L
Cms: .3mm/N
Mms: 70g
Rms: 3kg/s
Xmax: 6mm
Sd: 855
Qes: .35
Re: 6.6
Le: .2mH
Z: 8ohm
Bl: 17Tm
Pe: 500W
Qts: .33
1W SPL: 97.8dB

Price :

309$

Good luck !
 
N

NorCalAudio

Member
Joined 2008
simon5 said:
To better match your NeoPro 5i, why not go directly with the TD15M ? Better high frequency response, it will allow an easier crossover design and more flexibility in the crossover frequency.

Less deep bass, but with a passive radiator and a large enough box, you will be OK.
Click to expand...


So I would have 2 x TD15M's, 1 X PR15-700 and 1X NeoPro5i in each cabinet. Based on what you have mentioned above it may seem like a better solution as opposed to 2x12's.

Thanks,
Pat
 
N

NorCalAudio

Member
Joined 2008
Actually, 15's are going to be too wide. That would mean a cabinet at least 20" outside width, given at least 1" cabinet walls. I am looking for a cabinet design with no more than 15" to 15.5" outside width. Not to mention how high it would have to be.

12's are as big as I want to go and are plenty for what I need in terms of sound reinforcement. Therefore based on suitability in the AE driver family. What does anyone think of the TD12M? It seems to match a bit better.

TD12M - 8ohm
Fs: 38.1Hz
Qms: 2.99
Vas: 140L
Cms: .35mm/N
Mms: 50g
Rms: 4kg/s
Xmax: 6mm
Sd: 531sqcm
Qes: .27
Re: 6.6ohm
Le: .2mH
Z: 8ohm
Bl: 17Tm
Pe: 500W
Qts: .25
1W SPL: 96.5dB
 
S

simon5

Member
Joined 2004
Yes they are wide you are right, but you could mount them flush or something. They are 15 5/8" wide with a 14" mounting hole, so your cabinet could be 16" wide with 1" walls, or 15 5/8" if you are creative.

The TD12M are great also, but given the price difference, I find the TD15M hard to dismiss hehe !

Did you model some enclosures to be sure that a single PR700 is enough for what you want to achieve in the low frequency department ?

Good luck in your design ! :)
 
Helmuth

Helmuth

Member
Joined 2008
NorCalAudio said:
Actually, 15's are going to be too wide. That would mean a cabinet at least 20" outside width, given at least 1" cabinet walls. I am looking for a cabinet design with no more than 15" to 15.5" outside width. Not to mention how high it would have to be.

12's are as big as I want to go and are plenty for what I need in terms of sound reinforcement. Therefore based on suitability in the AE driver family. What does anyone think of the TD12M? It seems to match a bit better.

TD12M - 8ohm
Fs: 38.1Hz
Qms: 2.99
Vas: 140L
Cms: .35mm/N
Mms: 50g
Rms: 4kg/s
Xmax: 6mm
Sd: 531sqcm
Qes: .27
Re: 6.6ohm
Le: .2mH
Z: 8ohm
Bl: 17Tm
Pe: 500W
Qts: .25
1W SPL: 96.5dB
Click to expand...


I think that a 12" never will produce high quality mid maybe I am wrong and the AE sound good.
The td12m does not produce enough low frequency MIO.

The result of this project that you will end up with a speaker that produces super high frequency response due the ribbon, poor mid and no sub bass.

Overall only high frequency will stand out. That it is louder you can' t hear only when you compare it to a other speaker.

I would try to get as much sub bass as possible to get a more impressive sound. The high spl if it got low thd you can' t hear but sub bass response is audible.

I advise the 6m90 as a mid from 300- 1800Hz. Also if you wan't to prevent Doppler off the mid. And 1X 15" woofer
 
N

NorCalAudio

Member
Joined 2008
Thanks for the input. I just picked up LspCAD Lite and I am in the process of looking at some different combination's. I have added several of the drivers that we have discussed here and am in the process of learning the software. It is actually quite intuitive.

On another note, what parameters are you looking at that give you the information your using to evaluate what would work and what would not work well? I mean if there are a handful of parameters per driver / tweeter, what are they that quickly let one know which might work better than another.

Thanks, you all have been a big help.

Pat
 
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