Sometimes
Seems to vary from recording to recording. Also depends on set-up. Need to have them really well level matched both over all and driver to driver. This particular system is a 4 way active so it's not all that hard to get the individual drivers well balanced. Also have to watch the toe-in to get things their best.
Rob
Seems to vary from recording to recording. Also depends on set-up. Need to have them really well level matched both over all and driver to driver. This particular system is a 4 way active so it's not all that hard to get the individual drivers well balanced. Also have to watch the toe-in to get things their best. Rob
further work
One reason I asked, I'm thinking of pulling the front baffle and "rounding over" any sharp edges I can w/o destroying the whole thing (it's solid cherry, so i don't want to do too much).
The hardest part will be the transition from the front baffle to the wings, as this is maybe a 30 degree angle. I'm wondering if this will reduce any diffraction errors introduced there, or if there is a better way. I'm also going to re-mount the planars using soft rubber mounts to reduce sound transfer from the driver frames to the baffle, or maybe build a suspended mount with a soft foam cushion. It'll be a fair amount of work, but I've sort-of thought of these as semi-finished, and have time to experiment. I'll use a generous roundover bit on the outside edges, but I'm still thinking about how to best do the front to wing transition.
I agree on the variation between different recordings. Most of my female vocal, acoustic guitar, and small group chamber pieces seem to produce the best "cloaking" effect of the speakers, whereas alot of orchestral and big band music seem diffuse and random in spatial clues (or lack thereof). B4 I put the widescreen in, you could litterally walk through the group playing; it seemed they were properly in front of you at the normal listening position, then as I walked up to and between the dipoles, it sounded like they were "around" you in proper context with a performance, and as I continued away past the back side, the sound retreated as if I walked from in front of the performance to behind it. Quite uncanny on small group performances.
Don't know about speakers literally dissapearing here in KY., but I have found that any power tools I lend out tend to develop a very high vapor pressure... 
John L.
One reason I asked, I'm thinking of pulling the front baffle and "rounding over" any sharp edges I can w/o destroying the whole thing (it's solid cherry, so i don't want to do too much).
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The hardest part will be the transition from the front baffle to the wings, as this is maybe a 30 degree angle. I'm wondering if this will reduce any diffraction errors introduced there, or if there is a better way. I'm also going to re-mount the planars using soft rubber mounts to reduce sound transfer from the driver frames to the baffle, or maybe build a suspended mount with a soft foam cushion. It'll be a fair amount of work, but I've sort-of thought of these as semi-finished, and have time to experiment. I'll use a generous roundover bit on the outside edges, but I'm still thinking about how to best do the front to wing transition.
I agree on the variation between different recordings. Most of my female vocal, acoustic guitar, and small group chamber pieces seem to produce the best "cloaking" effect of the speakers, whereas alot of orchestral and big band music seem diffuse and random in spatial clues (or lack thereof). B4 I put the widescreen in, you could litterally walk through the group playing; it seemed they were properly in front of you at the normal listening position, then as I walked up to and between the dipoles, it sounded like they were "around" you in proper context with a performance, and as I continued away past the back side, the sound retreated as if I walked from in front of the performance to behind it. Quite uncanny on small group performances.
Don't know about speakers literally dissapearing here in KY., but I have found that any power tools I lend out tend to develop a very high vapor pressure...
John L.
Olsen's work (backed up by the fairly recent aXp articles by the fellow from Hawaii) showed that a champher is pretty much as effective as a round over.
Any reflection back thru the driver membrane from obstructions behind the driver will likely make more difference.
Squishy mounting on the drivers may or may not be better than solid mounting. You loose the mass loading of the baffle and the driver is going to move around in space more.
dave
Any reflection back thru the driver membrane from obstructions behind the driver will likely make more difference.
Squishy mounting on the drivers may or may not be better than solid mounting. You loose the mass loading of the baffle and the driver is going to move around in space more.
dave
Tosh said:
Funny you should mention that. In the living room setup where my Ultor-X speakers are there is a 61" RPTV between them. With the speakers in the TV muted and TV stereo sound piped through the stereo system the illusion that the sound is emanating from the TV set is incredible. Talk about disappearing speakers!!!!
update
twiddled with the main dipole lines re: toe-in, etc. while watching the latest Indie Jones flick and "21" this week end.
I had tried some toe-in to see what the effect on music, movies, etc. was. With these speakers at least, toe-in is a definite negative. When toed in at all, the sonic focus gets progressively worse throughout the room, whereas with them facing straight forward, voices, guitar, orchestral, you name it becomes rock solid and "fixed" in the room regardless of where you're seated.
The HDTV in between the speakers causes no problems whatsoever, probably due to their size; in fact, I was using the included tv speakers as the center channel, but with those turned off, the image actually improves a bit, and dialog appears coming out of the screen more realistically.
I've tweaked the subwoofer positions slightly, and all I can say is, with 2 12" sonosubs, 2 10" woofers in the side surrounds (Adcom 6002's), and the 4 6.5" mid woofers in the mains, my entire house shakes with DEEP bass rattling the rafters. Explosions, trucks rumbling by (on screen), airplanes flying through the room, all effects are spectacularly accurate and downright frightening at times. My wife actually ducked in one scene as a jet came screaming out of the tv and out of the room....
I think the rear ambience information from the mains causes the detrimental effects wrt imaging accuracy, but I haven't made any sort of measurements to prove that, since what I've got now meets all my expectations.
John L.
twiddled with the main dipole lines re: toe-in, etc. while watching the latest Indie Jones flick and "21" this week end.
I had tried some toe-in to see what the effect on music, movies, etc. was. With these speakers at least, toe-in is a definite negative. When toed in at all, the sonic focus gets progressively worse throughout the room, whereas with them facing straight forward, voices, guitar, orchestral, you name it becomes rock solid and "fixed" in the room regardless of where you're seated.
The HDTV in between the speakers causes no problems whatsoever, probably due to their size; in fact, I was using the included tv speakers as the center channel, but with those turned off, the image actually improves a bit, and dialog appears coming out of the screen more realistically.
I've tweaked the subwoofer positions slightly, and all I can say is, with 2 12" sonosubs, 2 10" woofers in the side surrounds (Adcom 6002's), and the 4 6.5" mid woofers in the mains, my entire house shakes with DEEP bass rattling the rafters. Explosions, trucks rumbling by (on screen), airplanes flying through the room, all effects are spectacularly accurate and downright frightening at times. My wife actually ducked in one scene as a jet came screaming out of the tv and out of the room....
I think the rear ambience information from the mains causes the detrimental effects wrt imaging accuracy, but I haven't made any sort of measurements to prove that, since what I've got now meets all my expectations.
John L.
rcavictim said:Pyramid scheme actually. One of their positive guy attributes...the top surfaces are too small and too close to the ceiling for your significant other to put decorative cr@p on top of them.
The microwave antenna ones, right? It's really nice to see someone still using the same speakers after 5 years (I think it's that long).
Mine don't currently disappear like they used to, but that due to their new location. Mostly nearfield listening now. I'll have to move again before I can get the disappearing trick happening again
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Cloth Ears said:
The microwave antenna ones, right? It's really nice to see someone still using the same speakers after 5 years (I think it's that long).
Mine don't currently disappear like they used to, but that due to their new location. Mostly nearfield listening now. I'll have to move again before I can get the disappearing trick happening again
The "microwave antenna ones" are the rather massive full range large horns that employed pie shaped petals cut out of a 10 foot diameter microwave dish radome cover. They originally employed the Selenium 12C01P coaxial. I have not used these in years. I did end up replacing the drivers and was able to improve the sound a great deal and they are really nice speakers. That said my Ultor (23 drivers per cab array) blew them away IMO and the more recent Ultor-X (13 drivers per cab and sand augmented) are even better than the Ultor in some ways.
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