Vifa P17WJ + D27TG-35-06 TL (non MTM)? - diyAudio
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Old 12th October 2008, 05:04 PM   #1
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Default Vifa P17WJ + D27TG-35-06 TL (non MTM)?

Hello,
I have one pair of Vifa P17WJ drivers which I picked up at the tent sale. I recently also got a pair of Vifa D27TG-35-06 tweeters as I thought I would like to try them, and I think they will be a good match with those woofers (that, and, Parts Express doesn't seem to be carrying as many different models of Vifa speakers recently).

I know there are gobs of P17 designs floating around, but, most that I've seen are MTM.

I recently heard some TL designs for the first time at the Dayton DIY Audio event, and I liked the bass very much.

Andy G. has a design "The Pipes" that I could use, and I suppose I could fold it into a rectangular shape? But, I haven't done any TL/TQWT etc. designs yet and was wondering if someone knows of one already done in the more traditional shorter rectangular box shape (that uses one P17 woofer)?

I'll be happy to work out some sort of crossover for myself, but if someone has already worked out the box plans, quantity and placement of fill, etc., that would be helpful.

Anybody heard the "Pipes" care to comment further on how they sound relative to other DIY (or commercial) speakers you've listened to?

I may go ahead and build the Pipes, just to hear them, but, I don't think they'll pass the SAF test, being so tall. Rectangular boxes are also easier to move/fit in a car, etc.
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Old 12th October 2008, 05:48 PM   #2
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Well, this is interesting.

I just "retired" a set of speakers which I replaced. They included a Madisound-designed crossover and used The P17 and D25AG-35-06. I had stashed them with the thought of working up a MLQW enclosure for them.

Can you provide the parameters for the P17's you have?

I've got the Quarter Wave subscription and MathCad...my treat.

Later on I'll reverse engineer the crossover and post that.

Of course, anything that is already worked out is welcome.

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Old 13th October 2008, 04:04 AM   #3
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Cool, thanks Ed!

You want me to measure the impedance and fr so I can send you the .frd and .zma files?

I don't have a "test baffle" built, and I also don't have a calibrated mic - so, might be better if we can find somebody's existing .FRD file for now...

Maybe I should just go ahead and built a test baffle.

Here's the manufacturer's spec. sheet:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/297-305.pdf

I was thinking of a first order series crossover?

Here's a link to a Madisound crossover: http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF...p%20Design.pdf

Ah! Just found this: http://members.tripod.com/oakleyspeakers/MAIN.html

I think I saw that before, had just forgotten about it...
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Old 13th October 2008, 12:28 PM   #4
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So I got these D27TG-35-06 tweeters because of the low 650Hz FS, but, Vifa recommends "at least 2'nd order" crossover, and, at 3.5Khz!!

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/264-526.pdf

Seems a bit high to me. But, I'll play with crossover designs more later...
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Old 14th October 2008, 01:22 PM   #5
00940 is offline 00940  Belgium
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Default Re: Vifa P17WJ + D27TG-35-06 TL (non MTM)?

Quote:
Originally posted by critofur
Hello,
I have one pair of Vifa P17WJ drivers which I picked up at the tent sale. I recently also got a pair of Vifa D27TG-35-06 tweeters as I thought I would like to try them, and I think they will be a good match with those woofers (that, and, Parts Express doesn't seem to be carrying as many different models of Vifa speakers recently).

I know there are gobs of P17 designs floating around, but, most that I've seen are MTM.

I recently heard some TL designs for the first time at the Dayton DIY Audio event, and I liked the bass very much.

Andy G. has a design "The Pipes" that I could use, and I suppose I could fold it into a rectangular shape? But, I haven't done any TL/TQWT etc. designs yet and was wondering if someone knows of one already done in the more traditional shorter rectangular box shape (that uses one P17 woofer)?

I'll be happy to work out some sort of crossover for myself, but if someone has already worked out the box plans, quantity and placement of fill, etc., that would be helpful.

Anybody heard the "Pipes" care to comment further on how they sound relative to other DIY (or commercial) speakers you've listened to?

I may go ahead and build the Pipes, just to hear them, but, I don't think they'll pass the SAF test, being so tall. Rectangular boxes are also easier to move/fit in a car, etc.
TL are indeed really nice. Here's my take on a P17WJ+DT26 in rectangular boxes. They are now at my parents' house so I cannot provide any real measurements : Design of a TL for Vifa P17WJ

For the 350 I've invested in this project, I'm extremely happy with their sound. They like space to breath though, imaging suffers when they're too close to walls. Efficiency is quite low too and that combined with the low power rating of the p17wj means you cannot get very loud listening levels (which is perfect for my parents )
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Old 15th October 2008, 01:20 AM   #6
Andy G is offline Andy G  Australia
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There is no reason the "Pipes" cannot be folded.... ( except they will look like an box )

You may have to put the tweeter below the P17 to get the drivers to fit.

I even have a series crossover for the P17/D27 somewhere at home, (I'm at uni at the moment)..... email or PM me.

ps. be aware that the response of the P17 will be different in a "Pipe" style design from in a vented or sealed box, the sound is distinctly different.

pps.. the PE showcase may still have Dave's kids' build of the Pipes, where you can get his opinions of sound quality etc.

ppps.. as for saf, I should note that at least 4 pairs I sold were sold because the female really like the look !!! And if you finish them in, say, the same colour as the walls or to match your room cabinets etc, they really are not very intrusive at all.... more like "slim and elegant" (just like her)
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Old 15th October 2008, 01:40 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy G
There is no reason the "Pipes" cannot be folded.... ( except they will look like an box )

You may have to put the tweeter below the P17 to get the drivers to fit.

I even have a series crossover for the P17/D27 somewhere at home, (I'm at uni at the moment)..... email or PM me.

ps. be aware that the response of the P17 will be different in a "Pipe" style design from in a vented or sealed box, the sound is distinctly different.

pps.. the PE showcase may still have Dave's kids' build of the Pipes, where you can get his opinions of sound quality etc.


Well, when reading people's reviews of speakers I prefer to have a comparison to some other model [discussed in the review], otherwise, I don't really find it useful. Kind of the way people like their own children, they generally like the speakers they make. Without comparing them to some other speakers, hard to know what they're really saying...

Quote:
pps. as for saf, I should note that at least 4 pairs I sold were sold because the female really like the look !!! And if you finish them in, say, the same colour as the walls or to match your room cabinets etc, they really are not very intrusive at all.... more like "slim and elegant" (just like her)
Yes, I heard TL speakers for the first time at this last Parts Express DIY audio event (as I mentioned in the OP) and that was what impressed me most at the show. I haven't heard any P17 speakers, so, no concern about them sounding "different" as I haven't heard them in the first place, other than listening to them in the garage upside down with a tweeter on top with just a cap on the tweeter as the "crossover".

I've heard various people talking about liking the bass from P17s (including in small BR boxes) ~ with TL, there'll be even more bass to like.

Even if I don't end up liking the speakers, I still want to have a pair of TL speakers for a while to listen to at home (mostly in the garage, prob.). To be a fair trial of TL, I suppose I should build a BR box for the same drivers as a comparison...

Quote:
Originally posted by 00940


TL are indeed really nice. Here's my take on a P17WJ+DT26 in rectangular boxes. They are now at my parents' house so I cannot provide any real measurements : Design of a TL for Vifa P17WJ

For the 350 I've invested in this project, I'm extremely happy with their sound. They like space to breath though, imaging suffers when they're too close to walls. Efficiency is quite low too and that combined with the low power rating of the p17wj means you cannot get very loud listening levels (which is perfect for my parents )
Thanks for the info/link, I'll read that now...

Are you sure they won't play loud? One guy's web page where he had a little project w/them and a review said they were great as party speakers in his loft apartment and the bass was booming (in a good way).
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Old 15th October 2008, 02:54 AM   #8
Andy G is offline Andy G  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by critofur


Well, when reading people's reviews of speakers I prefer to have a comparison to some other model [discussed in the review], otherwise, I don't really find it useful. Kind of the way people like their own children, they generally like the speakers they make. Without comparing them to some other speakers, hard to know what they're really saying...

All I can assure you of, is that Dave has considerable experience with many different types and style of speakers and is very discerning on what he listens to. He also calls it as he sees it, without bias. Those who know him will vouch for that.

Note that I, myself, do not offer a comment on the sound of the speakers, for the very reason that they are my design (and the fact that I haven't listened to a pair for quite a long time).
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Old 15th October 2008, 02:00 PM   #9
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Ed? Are you still here?

I see plenty of crossover designs out there, but not plans with dimensions for the ideal TQWT.

Also, I'm fairly new to TL speakers in general, not sure how to decide which type would be "best"?


Quote:
Originally posted by Andy G
(and the fact that I haven't listened to a pair for quite a long time).
Not good enough to compel you to keep them around permanently, I guess? (or to build another pair to keep for yourself)

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Old 15th October 2008, 04:13 PM   #10
Andy G is offline Andy G  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by critofur


Not good enough to compel you to keep them around permanently, I guess? (or to build another pair to keep for yourself)

The P17 has not been available over here for a long time.

There are better drivers and certainly other designs to play with. I can't keep them all !!
I do still have the Corinthians, which is a similar TL using the Seas T17.
Having played with the P17 for quite a while, back when they were available, the Pipes or a similar TL is, IMO, the best way to optimise what it can do.
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