One for the Aussies

[Luke352]

Hey Guys I'm not sure if this is in the right section or not, but figured I'd ask here.

I'm just in the process of ordering some components to build up one of Zaph's basic designs, but he tends to like using Sonic Barrier in his cabinets. Are their places in Australia I can get some or similar materials as ordering it from Partsexpress adds over $30 USD to the shipping cost ($39 USD without and $70 with the sonic) which seems like a pretty rough shipping cost for some acoustic dampener and xover bits, considering I've had 16lb amps sent over for not much more.

Are there companies in Australia you can recommend for this kind of stuff, caps, inductors, resistors etc... I'm not after fancy ones just basic reliable brands. As with the current massive drop in the Aussie dollar it makes it pretty rough when your paying almost $60 Aussie dollars on shipping for some xover bits which could probably quite easily be thrown in a padded bag which would cost a quarter of the price to ship.

Thanks Guys

Luke

 

[col]

just go to jaycar.

The polypropylene caps are good and the aircore inductors are ok up to 100w. You can make a fairly OK crossover using one of there PCBs too.

http://www.jaycar.com.au

col.

 

[rabbitz]

Good well price caps and inductors at Speakerbug.
http://speakerbug.com.au/shop/

Jaycar have bits n pieces as well as damping material.
http://www1.jaycar.com.au/index.asp

WES Components carries drivers, resistors, caps, inductors.
http://www.wescomponents.com/

 

[Luke352]

I had found speakerbug before but didn't give it a whole lot of my time due to the prices looking high, but when you take in the Aussie dollar currently and the cost of shipping the prices look really good, I just punched in most of the stuff I need and it's looking to be quite a bit cheaper then getting stuff from the states .

Anything you guys can recommend in place of Sonic Barrier?

Also I haven't been able to find the resistors I need anywhere other then Partsexpress, so I was thinking I could wire up other values in series or parallel to get what I need but in the case of a xover I'm not sure if doing that will have some negative affect. For example parallel two 10 own for the 5 ohm and series some 2 ohm or 1.8 and 2.2ohm for 4 ohm, or can I even get away with a 3.9ohm for the 4ohm will it make a huge difference.

Thanks guys

 

[rabbitz]

The Jantzen caps he supplies are far better than the Jaycar ones and the inductors have a lower DCR etc. Don't forget to look at the DCR value of the inductor on his schematic (the red resistor value).

Just use the AX3694 damping from Jaycar or if you want to be fancy, add some AX3688 or AX3652 to the side panels as well. Under carpet felt works very well for side panels and is cheap.

You can also use the wool material from Soundlabs which goes a long way.
http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/p/V-5069-LAMB/Lambs+Wool+Damping+Material

Soundlabs also sell nice Mundorf M-Cap (white ones) that are great value.

3R9 for 4R is fine. Just use 10W wirewound which are readily available and wire in parallel or series as required. You don't need to be bang on with the values and within 5% would be close enough. 4R7 may be fine for the 5R and depends on where it is in the network.

 

[Luke352]

Thanks for that Rabbitz!

Well i've ended up with this

2ea.- 0.25mH 18AWG Air Core 0.22 ohm DCR 1076 Jantzen
2ea.- 10.0uF Jantzen Audio CrossCap
2ea.- 3.3uF Jantzen Audio CrossCap
2ea.- 2.7uF Jantzen Audio CrossCap
4ea.- 10R0 MOX Resistor
2ea.- 3R9 MOX Resistor
2ea.- 1.50mH 15AWG Cored Inductor 0.14Ù DCR Jantzen

Can you see any issues with my choice in components?

I went with a Iron Core inductor for the woofer as one of the options Zaph lists is to use a lower DCR inductor on this to increase midbass response slightly, but the Inductor I have listed for the tweeter the 0.25mH has a supposedly higher resistance, though I'm not sure that it really would since Zaph lists a madisound brand Inductor and it seems strange that the cheap madisound Inductor would have supposedly half the resistance of the higher quality Jantzen Inductor.

Thanks for all the Damdening material suggestions, I've also got some firmish open cell foam here thats about 2" thick and 2m x 3m so i'll cut that down and experiment with that as well.

Thanks

Luke

 

[Moondog55]

HI!!!
If using the Jaycar inductors in the future be careful as they don't handle high temperatures all that well, OK in the return path but I've just had the insulation fail on one of the 3mH aircores.
Jaycars power rating on most of their products is optimistic.

I haven't yet used those jantzen caps or coils but maybe I should buy up before current stocks are depleted and the falling Aussie dollar means that the replacement is going to be really high

Regards
Ted

 

[Andy G]

gees, you go out to do some shopping and a whole thread goes by !!

listen to Rabbitz, taught him everything I know

 

[rabbitz]

Yes... I've been corrupted by Andy. He's been a great mentor in this game.

Luke

Your choice looks fine. I wouldn't worry about the DCR on the 0.25mH as it's probably parallel to the tweeter in the filter. The difference with the Madisound would be due to the different wire size.... larger wire = lower DCR. The P-Cored inductors are very good and I used them in my mains and replaced some multi $$$ Mundorf air core.

I'm not sure about using the foam for damping as I haven't had a great deal of experience with it. The only place I've seen it used was in a B&W sub. Try it and see how it goes and you can always spring for $10.50 for some AX3694 if required.

BTW.... which design are you building?

 

[Andy G]

Most of my bass units are lined with foam carpet underlay, (usually zero cost) with a 1" layer of poly wadding.

Works well IMO.

(its not the ZR71, values are all wrong )



ps.. don't drop the P-cores, they can be a tad fragile !


pps, and when I said I taught P. Rabbitz everything I know, I was being a tad sly. He knows plenty on his own !!!
A great collaborator ! Thanks for all the help with these CDP's Rabbitz, more may be required

 

[Luke352]

Well I'm just building the ZBM4's something simple and small to start with since this is my first attempt at home audio stuff, figured I should keep it simple for my first attempt, though I started out in car audio and although I'm not to bad with the fabrication stuff I'm still no pro. I have the MCM drivers here which I got a friend in the states to forward on to me since MCM stated they will only send to Australia for previous customers, and I've got the Aura tweeters here as well.

I actually have enough drivers here to build 2 pairs, the first pair I'll try them out for some computer speakers and if I'm happy with the sound then I'll build the second pair for the lounge/tv/living room.

Though the eventual plan is to build some PMS's as I love the look of them and from previous research they would probably suit my listening preference. I'd also like to build up an amp or two. I was looking at the amps on 41hz and also SKA, though the amps will be down the track somewhat as I'm a youngish newly married guy with a house that was purchased at the beinning of the year and there are obviouly more important things (like aircon with summer coming lol) to be bought and paid for, as well as things to be done which take up time, paths, retaining walls etc...


Luke

 

[rabbitz]

Argh.... not more CDPs Andy.

 

[HiFiNutNut]

If using the Jaycar inductors in the future be careful as they don't handle high temperatures all that well, OK in the return path but I've just had the insulation fail on one of the 3mH aircores.

That doesn't sound good. I used a pair of the Jaycar inductors in my XO, unwinded to 0.21uH. I presume that the lower resistance would result in lower heat dissipation and should be OK. But based on your report, I guess I will still replace them with the WEB Component inductors because their wire looks much thicker. I might need to pad it with a small resistor.

Fortunately I could use SpeakerWorkshop to measure inductance quite accurately, and this is what I can share with you:

Be careful with WES Components inductors. I like them because they are 18AG (instead of 19AG as sold by Jaycar and Madisound) and that 1AG difference is quite a big difference! The wire looks so much thicker. This is useful if it is used in the signal path because we don't want to lower the sensitivity of the speaker drivers. However, the 0.33mH I bought from them was measured at 0.355mh, the 0.22mH was measured at 0.24, and a 0.05mH was measured at 0.058mH. I then checked my measurement with a number of the expensive Solen 14AG inductors, the the values corresponded to my measurement. So either Solen's measurement (and my measurement) was wrong, or the supplier to the WEB Components. I would suggest that the supplier to the WEB Components does not measure them correctly but with higher values.

Winding and unwinding turn by turn of an inductor while listening to the loudspeaker is fun. At sensitive location of the XO it reveals that one turn more or less could change the sound of the speaker quite a lot. I was very amazed. One turn may correspond to about 0.005mH change on a lower value inductor.

Regards,
Bill

 

[Moondog55]

3mH is quite a big inductor, it failed because of the insulation actually melting.
I don't think that there would be a problem with the smaller values because the DCR is so much smaller, I have a multi meter here to measure with but not all that accurate.
Intersting comment as I tend to leave inductor values as standard and play with capacitor values when voicing crossovers.
But I beleive that when placed in the signal path anything over 1/2 an Ohm resistance is too much LESS is More better

 

[Cloth Ears]

Soundlabs also sell nice Mundorf M-Cap (white ones) that are great value.

Definite second on those Mundorf "audiophile" white (with red writing) caps. Very neutral and pretty cheap for what you get and doesn't alter the sound like the SIO versions from the same people. We bought a whole bunch of the 0.22 for bypassing in a couple of amps.