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Old 3rd October 2008, 04:35 PM   #1
Ang is offline Ang  United States
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Default low distortion 12" choices for open baffle application

I'm looking for a low distortion 10" or 12" woofer to go with a DE250. The 12" would only need to do ~100Hz-1.6kHz.

With the 30% off deal on ebay this seems like the time to buy.

Candidates are:

Eminence Deltalite

18sound 12NDA520

Beyma 12g40

Ciare 12.75NdMR

Has anyone heard these against a more traditional hi-sensitivity mid like the PHY 1120?

Trying to keep this around $200/woofer. Amplification is a couple of 300B's - so higher impedance is preferred. 10" woofers could probably work too, but I've read less on them.

Thanks!
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Old 3rd October 2008, 07:52 PM   #2
BHTX is offline BHTX  United States
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I have 3 of these, brand new. I might be interested in selling them, not sure yet..
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=290-510
http://eminence.com/pdf/deltapro-12a.pdf

Since you're considering those woofers you posted, I can recommend these without hesitation, as they can keep up with pretty much all of them, and perhaps beat a couple of them, for quite a bit less money.

A 1 cubic ft sealed enclosure will only get you down to about 100 Hz with .7 Qtc. I'm assuming you'll be using a vented enclosure for whatever driver you'll end up with. One potential problem you might run into with these (and a lot of other drivers, perhaps even those that you listed.. I haven't modeled them so I don't know) is trying to get the port resonance far enough above the lowpass crossover frequency (if you're as anal about that kinda thing as I am). With optimum tuning (imo) and vent diameter, the port resonance will want to sit right around your xo freq, so you might want to move the tuning up just a little bit.

This isn't why I'm considering selling them though. I simply can't get items shipped to me quick enough before scratching the idea and coming up with something else, lol.

May I ask what high freq driver/horn you're going to use them with? I was planning on going with the DDS waveguide and probably BMS drivers (4552ND?), but never got around to buying them. I guess my brain wanders too much to even start a project, much less finish it.

You mentioned a 1.6 KHz lowpass point, which is what I'd end up using with the DDS if I went ahead with the project. I had initially hoped for a little lower, but after seeing some graphs around the net, 1.6 KHz LR4 looks about right as far as response of the waveguide is concerned. As for mating a 12" driver with a 90 degree waveguide, 1KHz - 1.2KHz would actually be ideal.. but of course, there aren't any readily available 1" exit waveguides that go that low. Going with a 10", or even an 8" would be ideal with the DDS waveguide, as far as matching directivity is concerned. But going from a 12" to 10" loses a lot of efficiency and/or low freq capability.

edit: LOL.. I must have forgotten you're using them for OB. Sorry about that!
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Old 3rd October 2008, 09:15 PM   #3
Ang is offline Ang  United States
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appreciate the advice - setting won't let me email you, so shoot me a pm with your price
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Old 3rd October 2008, 09:53 PM   #4
Ang is offline Ang  United States
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oh - details of the project

This is the B&C DE250 compression driver - consensus has it as a smooth extended tweeter that's still less than the JBL and TAD stuff.

The RCF h100 horn/wave guide supposedly works well with these and is pretty cheap. On the other end of the spectrum, there's the Geddes stuff, but @ $250 for the guide and foam.... I'd really have to hear it to be convinced their worth 2x the price of the tweeter itself. Low end will be a few Selenium pw3's.


I'll let you know how this turns out, since it might help in one of your projects.
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Old 3rd October 2008, 10:00 PM   #5
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My gut leans towards the 18Sound or maybe an Altec/ GPA 414.
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Old 4th October 2008, 01:22 AM   #6
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1.6khz crossover is quite high for 12 in woofer.
I think because of cone breakup it will ring quite badly when played at high volume. if such high crossover must be used, i'd go with acoustic elegance woofer + some serious cone/surround treatment.
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Old 4th October 2008, 02:04 AM   #7
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Here is Dan N's recent measurement of an AE TD12H, I think they've already optimized the cone/surround coating about as well you can.


Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 4th October 2008, 02:13 AM   #8
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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I suppose response curve is wrongly placed on chart as the TD12H should be around 93db...minor detail

Apart from that, I think AE have said that the TD15M has the best midrange of the whole range, due to optimal cone profile

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Old 4th October 2008, 02:22 AM   #9
Ang is offline Ang  United States
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that AE curve is is amazing... seems like the design work really paid off.
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Old 4th October 2008, 02:29 AM   #10
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wow, really impressive
augerpro, do you have impedance curve of this woofer, could you post it, if you have one available? thanks.
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