Bass horn driver? - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th September 2008, 05:51 PM   #1
Elbert is offline Elbert  Norway
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Default Bass horn driver?

Well,

Abandonming the idea of horn loaded stereo-speakers (the dimensions just became stupid), I'm lookinbg in to a "RT-Horn", a floor-standing horn presented in the old Swedish magasine "Radio & Television"

Since these artciles were published 30 years ago, none of the original 12" drivers are available any more, and even if they were, I'm sure some of the 30 years or so more recent stuff is actually a bit better.. (?)

From what I've managed to read up on, good horn drivers should have a fairly low Fs, at least lower than the horn cut-of, and a low Qts value (typ 0,2-0,3) . Low moving mass has also been mentioned as favorable.

it was therefore natural to look in to pro drivers, and one driver that has been mentioned as a candidate for these horns was The Eminence Kappa pro 12A

http://www.eminence.com/proaudio_spe...2&SUB_CAT_ID=1

Then I came across a pioneer driver on partsxpress, which looked rather cheap and cheerfull, but some of the data caugt my attention.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=290-125

Fs of only 23Hz, well that sounds good!
Qts of 0.16, thats very low, hardly ever see figures like that actually..

The only "drawback" i can immediately identify with the Pioneer, is the limited Xmax of 2,5mm, but since I'm looking for a horn driver, that'mon't really be an issue.

Of course, the Pioneer will not stand up to 500-ish Watts of power, but that is not a problem either..

Could it be that this Pioneer driver is a perfect candidate for horn loading at a reasonable price, or am I completely off here?

Any advise would be much welcome!
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2008, 12:41 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Quote:
I'm looking in to a "RT-Horn", a floor-standing horn presented in the old Swedish magazine "Radio & Television"
What's it like?

Quote:
Low moving mass has also been mentioned as favorable.
Depends on the application, in larger high power bass horns a high moving mass would be (much) more suitable. A strong cone,. large VC, low Fs and large Xmax would all result in higher moving mass. In such case low mmd would only be suitable for (very) low level listening.

Quote:
Then I came across a pioneer driver on partsxpress, which looked rather cheap and cheerfull, but some of the data caugt my attention.
I have a (naturally developed) distrust against such low Qts specs on cheap (large-ish bass) drivers.

Apart from that I would rather pick the driver based upon the horn parameters than pick a driver on some rule of thumb guidelines and hope it to work in a specific design.

There are single enclosures ment for low frequency production that will work specifically with low Qts drivers but also that will work specifically with high Qts drivers.

Wkr Johan
__________________
Impossibilities we do immediatly, miracles take slightly longer.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2008, 01:15 PM   #3
MaVo is offline MaVo  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
To determine drivers for horns by such guidelines is a relict from the pre-computer age. Use hornresp and simulate the horn/driver combination. This will yield very accurate results.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2008, 02:59 PM   #4
Jmmlc is offline Jmmlc  France
R.I.P.
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default Re: Bass horn driver?

Hello,

There is often a solution for bass horn that is still WAF.

In the attached picture you'll see the (Le Cléac'h) bass horn built by my friend Frédéric Lebas.


Best regards from Paris, France

Jean-Michel Le Cléac'h



Quote:
Originally posted by Elbert
Well,

Abandonming the idea of horn loaded stereo-speakers (the dimensions just became stupid),
Attached Images
File Type: jpg flebas.jpg (50.9 KB, 1666 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2008, 04:18 PM   #5
kevinkr is offline kevinkr  United States
diyAudio Moderator
 
kevinkr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Blog Entries: 6
Default Re: Re: Bass horn driver?


That's wild!
__________________
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2008, 05:52 PM   #6
Elbert is offline Elbert  Norway
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
What horn,

Well, that's a valid question to start with..

This is a front-loaded wall-horn where the body of the horn is actually standing on four legs, using the rear-wall and floor as part of the horn.

The theory is that the opening formed between the horn body and the floor acts as the horn mouth. Further to this, the horn is based around the theory that the relatively narrow horn mouth will have its effective area doubled by floor reflection.

This horn was originally designed and published by "radio & television" in 1973, known as the "RT-1" horn. This horn was designed for 10" woofers.

In 1978, the horn was re-launched in two new versions intended for 12" drivers; "RT-2" with approximately the same size and cut-off as the original RT-1 horn, and a slightly smaller horn, RT-3.

On the enclosed image, the smaller RT-3 horn can be seen.

It is the larger RT-2 I am most interested in.

The horn is cited as being capable of 30 HZ, and some measurements show a roll-off starting at around 45 Hz. These measurements were however taken at the horn mouth, thereby not giving the benefit of any room assistance.

Wether or not introducing a bass-horn in the form of a plateau in the living-room is wife-friendly, may of course be subject to debate, but what i like about the RT-horns is that they are fairly large horns which lends them selves rather nicely towards blending in with furniture.

It would make for a great TV table provided the vibrations are not to severe.

So, the drivers...

Agree that hornresp would be a great tool for checking a driver for compatibility with this horn, or better still, adapt the horn to the driver.

But I must admit that I'm not quite sure how to reverse-engineer this horn design for the purpose of simulation.

Perhaps I would be better off designing an entirely new horn from scratch and then fold it in a similar fashion?

Regarding drivers, I agree that the Pioneer sounds to good (and inexpensive) to be true. it would be interresting to know if it's only the specs being far too optimisitc, or if there is just some hidden trade-off..

looks like we've got a good horn thread going here, could be interesting...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rt-horn-2.32web.jpg (98.5 KB, 1159 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2008, 06:08 PM   #7
AKN is online now AKN  Sweden
No snake oil
diyAudio Member
 
AKN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: In the middle of Sweden
Send a message via MSN to AKN
Hi,

I'm glad to see a discussion on this old horn design.
See this old thread where these horn designs have been discussed before.
__________________
/ Anders
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2008, 06:35 PM   #8
Elbert is offline Elbert  Norway
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Hi Anders!

Thanks for pointing me to that thread!

As with a lot of other stuff from the old RT magazines, I found these articles very interesting!

Looking at the professional level in those magazines is quite amazing compared with a lot of the rubbish out in print today. Fed up with subjective nonsense reviews of cables and obscure exotica with astronomical prices justified by snake-oil quasi-science, I've just about quit buying magazines altogether!

The last decent magazine was the Danish "high-fidelity" before they too departed from enthusiast tweaks and DIY in favour of "high-end"...

What good fortune for me that my father has almost the complete 70's issues of RT!

Very interesting to hear that you have personal experience with these horns Anders...

would you say that the bass-reproduction of these horns stil have something going for them today, or have they become an anachronism in the face of new and improved direct radiator technology?

Having said that, perhaps some new drivers could add some serious improvement to the concept??
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2008, 06:36 PM   #9
AuroraB is offline AuroraB  Norway
diyAudio Member
 
AuroraB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Norway, -north of the moral circle..
Anders...
I wonder if these were all presented in the old "Högtalarbyggboken"..........?

I have that stashed away somewhere, but I'm in the process of moving house these days. Still pondering about new projects, as I'm finally getting my workshop back in order again.
__________________
While the Lie leapt from Bagdad to Constantinopel, the Truth was still looking for it's sandals!
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2008, 06:41 PM   #10
Elbert is offline Elbert  Norway
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
could send you a scan of the cutting-list and build plan if U're interested.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
selecting a driver for a BIB bass horn? brookbh Subwoofers 1 4th June 2008 03:15 AM
Driver selection to match bass horn Lars Timm Full Range 0 31st January 2008 03:03 PM
10" driver for Bass tower in Horn project angeloitacare Multi-Way 22 29th November 2007 01:10 PM
how to go from horn response to a folded bass horn design? paulspencer Subwoofers 8 4th November 2005 10:44 PM
Phase plug for cone driver in mid-bass horn design? mefistofelez Multi-Way 2 18th October 2003 07:59 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:53 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2