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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

full-range crossovered ;)
full-range crossovered ;)
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Old 25th September 2008, 09:32 PM   #1
Maloggista is offline Maloggista  Italy
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Lightbulb full-range crossovered ;)

Hi everyone
I'm planning a quite unconventional, but nothing revolutionary speaker; at the opposite, (not for the crossover but for the speaker itself) I thinked it was a very common design in diy projects, but since I wasn't able to find quite none project with same spec. I'm starting to think to be in a very wrong starting point ("you'r the stupid one, not the others" is ofthen a good philosophy), and I'd like to have some comment&suggest by you

3 way, sealed box with separated volumes for every speaker (my project is active, but should be also passive naturally)
the starting point is a full-range midrage; some possibility (obviously with very different price and value spec.)
- Tang Band W4-1337SA 4" (probably best cost/value)
- E.J. Jordan JX92S (beautifull but expensive)
naturally others speakers fits with the requested specs (strongly flat between 150-6000Hz, low HD between 200-5000Hz, mostly fast&clean waterfall, quite regular impedance&phase in the range) but theese are just for example.
My actual tweeter choice is on Bohlender Graebener Neo3 PDR, perhaps with a little bit of responce correction (better explained in the crossover part) but usable also as is.
My best problems are in finding woofer (could anyone help me?): it should be a 8-10" working flat in sealed box (30-40 litre max) from 300 down to (about) -1@50 \ -3@40Hz; for now I've found this http://www.humanspeakers.com/diy/parts/005.htm simulations are ok, but no graph at all on frequency and first of all on distortion and CSD... so I'm really not sure!

I'm developing a digital FIR crossover on a dedicated fanless mini-itx PC (if anyone are interested I should be more precise, here just some data because this is already a very long post)
Elliptical slope, very hi order (but not extreme), 32 bit, 0,4-0,5 sec of impulse responce, 200\5000Hz + low cut on 20-25Hz
this is just a raw example pic:
The logical chain for any channel should be: ADC (or digital input)---elevate sample rate& bit depth---FIR filter (optional eq but in the same step with customized impulse)---delay compensation---(dither?)---HDMI out---multiway amp (thanks Koon Lab, I'm not using your software but you give me some very greath ideas!!!)
still some problems on the amp choice, but it would be too long here, anyway any suggert is strongly wellcome!

so, summarizing:
- very flat responce (+-1db 40-22000)
- very fast and dumped dynamic
- any driver working just in its "best range" without force it and limiting IMD
- easy to setup and correct by digital interface that (if very well made) should be very VERY better than analog filter&Xover
- perfect phase&time alignment without using strange filters or more strange baffles (just digital delay!)
- not free, but really not expensive
- others minor

So, the questions:
- first of all: am I totally idiot? (be sincere please) why quite no-one use a full-range as midrage in 3 way with low&hi crossover pints? (ofthen in 2 way, but this is very terrible for low Hz reproduction)
- seriously, what do you generally think&suggest
- wich woofer??? (some good link like ZAPH with same wonderfull measure, but on big woofer too, would be EXTREMELY appreciated!)
- wich amp? I'm tempted by a "full digital way" for eliminate the DACs but I'm not so shure about the result

Really sorry for a so long post, I'm at your full disposition for any more detail, and thanks a lot to anyone would be so kind to give me some suggest!

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Old 25th September 2008, 10:10 PM   #2
planet10 is online now planet10  Canada
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full-range crossovered ;)
The idea is solid

We are just finishing something along the same lines... just a 2-way in our case (i would not be surprized if the mid-tweeter we used out tweeter the BG). FF85eN XOed to sealed CSS SDX7 (modified) at 333 with a PLLXO.

When we were prototyping the XO with a DCX2496, with a bit of boost at 25 Hz, i was measuring flat +/- 2dB from 25 Hz to limit of my measuring kit (~16k)... someone elses measures show response out past 20k.

Another project is the Fonken + FonkenWoofTL + AC ribbon. 100 Hz active for the woofer/mid, and a cap XO on the AC. Questionable whether the AC is needed, we've been only tried a cap XO on the tweeter.

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community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
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Old 25th September 2008, 11:17 PM   #3
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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full-range crossovered ;)
Its a good idea and those are probably very good drivers too...although I personally would aim fore a bit bigger woofer and maybe higher sensitivity, which easily becomes tricky...and costly

Hivi D10G seems like a very nice woofer
sometimes we know very little, and sometimes we know too much
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Old 26th September 2008, 03:35 PM   #4
Maloggista is offline Maloggista  Italy
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Hi Planet 10, hi Tinitus, thanks a lot for yours answer!

X Planet 10: I have to admit to be a very "sealed box addicted" but not blind, I'm now reading with attention all the documentations on your sites and I'm finding a lot of great ideas, projects and solutions!!!

X Tinitus: Hivi D10G is a super-suggestion, thanks! I'm asking myself why I was not considering it... perhaps I was scared by the hi VAS, but since QTS is also quite hi it is usable in not so big enclosure, very very good! Do you eventually know Hivi D10.8 too? wich one would you prefer?
Yes, that would be a not very sensitive speakers, but it's not one of my primary problem: in this "middle" size, thinked for a not so far listening, being active, I suppose that 15-25/channel of clean W should be more that sufficient for a good but not eccessive volume.
I perfectly agree with you about the size, this is a preliminary-project; a middle-low cost version just for trying to obtain a good near-field and bench the overall idea; if it succeed, a bigger (and moooore expensive) version will came; for sure with 12-15" woofer (B&W 801s style) in bigger enclosure and perhaps a WMTM or WMTMW for a greater sistem able to recive more W, but probably I would loose something in time-coherency, so I'm more "just 3 way" oriented.

Thanks again to both!!!

Oh, in last post I've citated 2 sites omitting the url... sorry for that, they are:

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Old 26th September 2008, 06:18 PM   #5
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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full-range crossovered ;)
Originally posted by Maloggista

Do you eventually know Hivi D10.8 too? wich one would you prefer?

Sorry, I dont know any of them, so its difficult fore me to ad anything further on that
sometimes we know very little, and sometimes we know too much
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