Internet Research Only

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Hi,

I just registered to ask some advice on a hi-fi system.

I'm basing my decisions so far on internet research, I've never even heard a hi-fi system, the best sound I've heard so far was a panasonic sound bar in an apartment store playing a music dvd.

Anyway I have a quite big room, listen to all types of music quiet and loud and will play uncompressed and compressed music off my computer.

I haven't got any good hi-fi shops around me and I live in New Zealand so getting a budget system is tricky.

I can do wood working quite well but have limited soldering experience.

I have been researching in my spare time for a few months and enjoy it, thus far most of the system I am considering will be sent from overseas.

My rough budget is $1000 NZ ($700 US)

I understand how hard this might be because individual tastes vary so much but balance is key.

--------------

My idea so far is:

- KECES DA-151 $285 US

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...o=CRX&its=S%2BI%2BSS&itu=ISS%2BUCI%2BSI&otn=3

-Trends Audio TA-10.1 $230 US

http://www.audio-magus.com/product_p/ta10.htm

-A pair of Audio Nirvana Standard 8 and Super 8 drivers (to build 2.8 Ambience box) $340 US (not including enclosure) (you can switch between forward facing driver or both drivers)

http://www.nirvanaspeakers.com/nirvana.html

------------

Cheers
 
Do a simple 2-way. If you can't solder, go active. Doesn't have to be expensive either, even for high sensitivity. The money you'd save passing on the wacky full-rangers would be better spent elsewhere in that case. Dunno anything about that DAC, dunno what it uses, didn't look. As for that Trends.. I'd be willing to bet it's pretty much this little toy right here: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-958 ..I had the 1st gen a while back. $20 from eBay. It'd do a few watts with some modification.
 
Arthur, If you like to build things yourself and get a good feeling of accomplishment when you are finished I would suggest you practice up on your soldering skills and build your own amp. The quality of the finished product could well be an amplifier on par with some of the 3 to 4 thousand dollar retail units.
If you are extremely conscientious and check every component you use and follow the instructions very closely you should not have any problems. The major mistake most people make is not checking everything as you build. Going back and having to troubleshoot can be very tedious.
Check out some of the options in this forum and Pass Labs for some good ideas on build projects. The reward is worth the labor. Have fun Tad

Watch out you just might get bit by the audio diy bug and really start putting together some fancy stuff.
 

GM

Member
Joined 2003
When someone says 'uncompressed' and 'loud' for a HIFI app, this equates to needing a high sound quality (SQ) efficient prosound-like system and plenty of dynamic headroom (power), which will be well beyond your budget, so what compromises are you willing to make to meet your budget?

GM
 
Speaker:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/PMS.htm

(search the forum here for opinions on it)

Use the same inductors (Parts Express) or copper foil substitutes with exceedingly similar resistances (the mh value should be the same but the ohm value can vary very slightly). You can change out capacitors to suit your taste.. (..for resistors I prefer a DIY effort as long as they aren't thermally abused, but its up to you.)

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

(value-wise look to DIY HiFi supplies Obligato caps or SA grade Clarity Caps.)

Put most of your money into the loudspeaker.

The Sonic Impact 5065 Gen 2 T-Amp with Power Supply (BHTX's suggestion) is a good low cost solution that can be upgraded with a substitution of the input capacitor and perhaps latter on with a better power supply (possibly a large array of paralleled SLA batteries). In any event the amp is more than worth its price AS-IS so long as the loudspeaker doesn't present a difficult load, and the PMS (above) doesn't. This will give low output (sounds loud though with a speaker of the PMS's eff. and load). If you are willing to do a kit for low cost consider other Tripath offerings from 41 Hz, or a gain clone, or something else.
 
Hi,

Maybe I don't mean 'loud'. I'm looking for decent volumes in quite a large room, the audio nirvana 2.8 ambience sounded perfect to me but I don't know much about enclosure design.

Maybe a 2.8 ambience type enclosure but more suited to those speakers, is there a tried but true box design with upwards firing drivers that would work with the AN standard and super 8s?

Or maybe a bass reflex enclosure for a super 8 cast frame, running off a higher powered diy t amp kit?

I'm willing to compromise in all areas as long as the system remains balanced.

Thanks
 
As GM notes, there's a limit to what you can do with your budget. You seem to like the idea of FR drivers. However, the 8in AN drivers are really not ideal for BR style cabinets (whatever they like to claim). Low Q FR units with a rising response and a BR box generally doth not a happy combination make unless you're willing to Eq things flat, either via passive or active methods, or running other drivers with them. It'd be possible to do something similar using drivers slightly better suited to the task. Although in all cases, you'd have to watch out for dust etc getting into the upper driver.

Alternatively, I usually don't like suggesting anything I've done, but may I venture that something here might suit? http://www.frugal-horn.com/spawn-plans.html The Half or Full Chang cabinets with the Fostex FE207E are easy builds, & might give you what you're after.
 
arthur Thompson said:
...............

I haven't got any good hi-fi shops around me and I live in New Zealand so getting a budget system is tricky.............................My rough budget is $1000 NZ ($700 US)

.............


Hi.

There are bargains to be had in the second - hand market in NZ if you look around.

Last year, I was in Napier for a few weeks and went to the auction house there.

I picked up an original black 12" Tannoy dual-concentric for NZ$9.90 (inc. tax) which is an absolute bargain!!!!

Also at the same auction were 3 brand new in box, old 12" full-range Philips speakers with the alnico magnets and whizzers which would have made a great pair of speakers. I did not buy them but you could have had them for about the same price I'm sure (unsold lot) The auction also had some reasonable old school Japanese amp which went for a couple of dollars.

I asked the auctioneer if this sort of thing was sold often. He said "yes, something every week".

So it may pay to keep your options open and look around the auctions .


Andy
 
*Source:

-USB Monica DAC PCB Module

http://diyparadise.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=13&products_id=86

-Gain Stage Kit

http://diyparadise.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=64

-USB Monica DAC

http://diyparadise.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=13&products_id=82


*Amp:

-Amp6-Basic Kit

http://www.41hz.com/main.aspx?pageID=118

-LM3886 Amp Kit

http://www.chipamp.com/lm3886.shtml

-Sonic Impact T Gen 2

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-958


*Speakers:

-Chang Family G Chang or Curvy Chang with Fostex FE207e

http://www.frugal-horn.com/spawn-plans.html


*Cables:

-DIY silver rRCA interconnect cables

http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/diySilver/

DIY speaker cables

http://diyaudioprojects.com/Power/DIY-Speaker-Cables/

----------

That's where I'm at so far, I'm not 100% confident that I could build an amp kit or the curvy changs but Its probably worth a shot.

Thanks for the help
 
FWIW, I'd suggest you forget the cables & just use whatever's to hand initially. Bluntly, there's nothing wrong with solid core ring-mains or bog standard zip cord. You can always DIY something fancy later on if you felt the need.

Most of the amp kits are supposed to be easy enough from the POV that they're very simple -it's just the small sizes that means they're fiddly, so you'll just have to take care, or use a fully built one.

If you can't manage the curved front cabinet, just use the flat-fronted version. They both work well, but have slightly different presentations.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
arthur Thompson said:
....off my computer.

- KECES DA-151 $285 US
-Trends Audio TA-10.1 $230 US

A better solution would be the KingRex T20U from AudioMagus (http://www.audio-magus.com/product_p/krt20u.htm). It is the best of the small T-amps i've heard (much more refined than the Trends, better Q/C from what i hear and a better build quality). This version has the same DAC chipset as the KECES and is executed very well -- and it is about the same price as the DAC alone. if you want to spend more, the external analog power supply steps it up, but diying your own (to get some experience), or just using a battery might well be a better use of your budget. When you consider quality & execution of this amp, it is hard to diy anything as slick for the same money.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


As to speakers, i heartily recommend going with a full-range. It not only will be a much better match with these amps, when building a 1st frugal-phile(tm) speaker, what you might loose with a full-range is way more than gained back by not having to deal with a crossover -- evil things those. On a budget a simple full range loudspeaker can easily spank a similarily priced multiway. And that is before you consider amplifier synergy.

I've lost count of how many times i've seen comments like this.... http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1611304#post1611304

give me far more musical enjoyment than the mega money B&w nautilus they replaced

I can't yet speak for the Audio Nirvana, but they have a good rep (i expect to see a set of the cast 10s sometime soon -- a client is sending me a pair to do my magic on), but the generic, poorly thot out common sense cabinets are to be avoided.

Based on factory spec, some of them fit in the Spawns, and there are some Metronomes they should work well in. The Mets can also be used as a starting point for a monolith ML-V (like Mileva & Demetri), so there is no shortage of boxes.

dave
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
Re: Re: Internet Research Only

poynton said:
I picked up an original black 12" Tannoy dual-concentric for NZ$9.90 (inc. tax) which is an absolute bargain!!!!

Also at the same auction were 3 brand new in box, old 12" full-range Philips speakers with the alnico magnets and whizzers which would have made a great pair of speakers. I did not buy them but you could have had them for about the same price I'm sure (unsold lot)

WOW!!!

What a steal... i would have considered leaving the contents of the luggage behind and scooped those Philips too, they are superb (in some ways better than the Tannoys)

dave
 
Just think -if you got the Kingrex, you'd have the potential for a slap. :D

Oh dear. Couldn't they think of a better name than that for the battery supply? ;) A tragedy. Although I gather the amp flattens a lot of more expensive gear, providing you don't ask it to power your Isobarik's to 120db peaks of course (come to think of it, is there any amp that hasn't waved the white flat, fallen flat on it's face & grovelled for mercy when presented with that evil load? They made the Apogee Scintilla look like an Altec VOTT).
 
While I really don't think one can expect very good sound without spending $300k-700k (USD), it might be possible to limp along for less;)

Here's the system I was listening to on the 11th of this month. The owner is a member of our Audio Club and also served as one of our Judge's at "The Puget Sound! DIY Speaker Contest" earlier this month. It's simply the best system I've heard.

Link: http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html

Obviously, with an unlimited budget, decent taste and refined listening skills it's fairly easy to assemble a world-class system.
But that's not much help for people that must adhere to a fairly tight budget. Mike's TT (in the above link) cost nearly 3x's what my house did some years back.

The really good news is that you found this forum and can profit greatly from the various threads and the advice of world class experts like Dave Dlugos (Planet 10), who is BTW: "The Living God of Garage Sales."

Some time ago, I boasted, on this forum, that I had the finest "Under $100 (USD) System in the World," a mistake that I paid for dearly, as my head was handed to me on a platter. It was, and is, utterly amazing some of the systems that can be put together on a very limited budget.

My recommendation would be to see if there are any old, but working tube amps that can be bought cheaply or just purchase the Audio Magnus amp that Dave mentioned. Then build some of the JE Labs Open Baffles with a removable speaker mounting panel in the center. That way you can "upgrade" the drivers as the auctions come along and you find vintage (read: Great!) fullrange drivers that can be bought for very little. The source can be a used CD player, your iPod or even one of the new, budget DVD players that utilize the latest chipsets and can sound very good. Vinyl is still the best and a good, used TT doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg, although you'll need a phono stage. Hagtech has a small battery powered one that can be assembled for under $60 (I believe) and is pretty decent. Make your own Interconnects and Speaker Cables, if they cost much more than $12-15 each you're probably throwing your money away.

Now, do yourself a favor and stop buying Audio Magazines. They'll try and encourage you to spend a lot more money than you need to and you'll end up with an inferior system for your trouble. I treat them like Playboy Magazine, I look at the pictures and never read the articles.

For your budget you not only can have a very good system, but with some research on this forum and careful purchasing, you can put together a system that might not beat the linked system above, but wouldn't be shamed by it either.

It really is within reach!

Good Luck and Best Regards,
TerryO
 
Thanks for the help so far.

It sounds like the T20U is the amp and usb dac, It'll cost me US $322, I know I should spend a higher percentage of my budget on the speakers but If I get the wood and build the boxes (or lack thereof) for free and don't count wires I'm happy with this choice.

I'm still open to ideas about amps and dacs by the way but since computer audio is comparatively quite new I doubt I'll find a better suited product.

Speakers:

Hi Dave, when I said the Audio Nirvana speakers sounded perfect to me I didn't mean literally, I haven't heard them, so my enclosure choice may not be as limited as you thought, do you think the AN drivers in the enclosures you mentioned could still be my best bet?

TerryO, with the T20U as my source and amp can you recommend some drivers for JE Labs Open Baffles?

I don't really have the time or knowledge to attend auctions and garage sales and spot ultra deals but if this system turns out alright I might be heading down that path.

How do the open baffle designs compare with the spawn family, mets and monoliths? It sounds like my next step is to decide which one to build and what drivers to use.

My quite big bedroom is 16 feet long, 12 feet wide, 10 feet high, my quite big lounge is 20 x 16 x 10.

I'll probably use the lounge as any other room I use will be smaller.

One last thing I should have mentioned is that when I listen to music it's mostly at the computer, pacing around the room or watching TV, I was hoping I could move my table out into the room and place the speakers quite wide so the sweet spot clears the monitor, I'm not really into small speakers sitting on the desk top because I like that dramatic room-filling sound but if higher quality desktop speakers would suit better since thats where I'll mostly listen from then I'll consider that.

My computer sits on a large table so an open baffle design might even fit on that?

Arthur
 
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